The Reiki Cafe 

Hi everyone:

just some food for thought...

I am having some difficulty understanding the notion about getting permission to send Reiki. Is Reiki not a loving energy...and would it not be to the person Highest good (whatever that may be for them)and would it be any different then sending the person a prayer???!!

I would like to hear others feelings on this.

Love and light,

copper

Ooops here we go again..if you look down the board there was a reasonably heated debate on this subject that I was involved in.....

I have been taught that reiki does no harm and cannot harm and therefore it is fine unless someone specifically asks you not to send it.....as I said in the thread earlier if it be for the higher good for someone than this is the DISCALIMER as it were....

IMHO it is fantastic to send it to all, at all opportunities...the more the better its a wonderufl gift to share but you will meet some resistance from the more old fashioned types....

I tell you what, you never find the old masters saying you cant and it has never done any harm during reikis entire existence so GO SEND THAT REIKI....have you ever seen a newspaper front cover "DISTANT RIEKI KILLS"..No I didnt think so!

Copper,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- sending a prayer involves a 'middle-man', so to speak - and as we all know not all prayers are answered in the way we wish

- Reiki goes from Practitioner to Recipient, directly (and at times seemingly without resultes commensurate with the original intention)

- this, then, has Practitioner responsible for the movement of energy, not some 'middleman'

- in the end, we each do as we feel is right and the effects of our actions will accumulate to our Karma, regardless

>:-}}

- hope this helps

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

If you believe that the universal life force is indeed universal then you will understand that this energy is everywhere, including the middle man as FK puts it ..there is no other middle man other than the one that mankind has invented for its own purpose. They need to form the shape of a deity/deities so that people have soemthing tangible to attach religous tenets to......religion has its place in spiritualty but we all perceive it differently whether Jewish, Christian or whatever ...reiki is the same universal energy that all relgions write about and have in their own faiths. I dont think anyone can argue that there is this wonderful universal energy but I do think it is dagerous to imagine (after all that is all we can do) that there are agents out there who recieve our thoughts and prayers and then change them half way acorss as in a middle man so that prayers become unmet and unanswered. If you think about reikis intent and the gassho meditataion this is very much like a prayer..before anyyone goes into the third act of La Traviata about this statement can i say that "WE ALL KNOW REIKI IS NOT A RELIGION AND i AM NOT SUPPOSING IN ANY WAY THAT IT IS". Being reiki is about using (possibly wrong word) the universal energy ...this does not require a religious attachment/label or marble statue in a chruch ...

Hi Copper,

This is one debate that never really ends depending on your vantage point :)

Personally I don't see what the problem is with asking for permission first. In most cases it is fairly straight forward to ask someone if they want Reiki before sending it. Why would we need to just send Reiki anyway.... I still think that it comes down to our ego and not wanting to be rejected or being on some kind of mission to heal the world, because we think we know what's best for everyone. What I mean is if someone rejects the Reiki that we offer, perhaps we feel that they are rejecting us in some way....just a thought. To use an example, how would we feel if highly religious people of some denomination or another tried to brainwash us into converting to their religion, because they felt that it was best for us and they knew best ? Isn't that kind of what we're doing by just sending healing without asking for permission...saying hey we know what's best for you? What happened to respect and freedom of choice here?

The problem is that not everyone wants to be healed and there are some situations where sending Reiki might just be harmful e.g to those with severe mental illness.

In my mind it is violating someone's energy space to send energy without someone's permission and prior knowledge. I don't buy the 'if their higher self doesn't want it, it won't take it' because I think it's a bit of a cop out and saves taking responsibility for our own conscious actions.

Anyhow, I'll get off my soap box now and burn it! :)

Gentle Blessings
Helen

I was thought by my Reiki Master to always ask permission. But I have sent Reiki both wats with good results. I always ask that if the healing isen't received to return it to the universe for healing energy or to someone in need
works for me..

TNT

Namaste all

If we think of the fact that we are all connected at higher level and one with God at all levels, there does not arise the question that we are violating anybody's "space". We are all already in each other's space consciously or unconsciously. Only in the physical realm we are seperate and even without reiki, we are sending each other all kinds of energies and accumulating karma depending on the purity of our thoughts. So pure thoughts and reiki are the same as long as we use them prudently.

Mal

Hi Mal,

Connected yes, but each soul living it's own experience, trying to resolve it's own karma. Do we have a right to intervene in another's experience without their conscious permission? What if at a soul level they have chosen their particular experience and chosen not to heal as part of that experience ? Is it really compassionate action to send healing without really knowing that it is wanted?

Gentle Blessings
Helen

Well, if reiki is as you've described, then why were you instructed that you shouldn't send it if some asks you not to?

Bruce

gavstar said on

>I have been taught that reiki does no harm and cannot harm and therefore it is fine unless someone specifically asks you not to send it.....as I said in the thread earlier if it be for the higher good for someone than this is the DISCALIMER as it were....
>
>IMHO it is fantastic to send it to all, at all opportunities...the more the better its a wonderufl gift to share but you will meet some resistance from the more old fashioned types....
>
>I tell you what, you never find the old masters saying you cant and it has never done any harm during reikis entire existence so GO SEND THAT REIKI....have you ever seen a newspaper front cover "DISTANT RIEKI KILLS"..No I didnt think so!

Y'know, not everyone wants to be prayed for.

Bruce

copper said on

>Hi everyone:
>
>just some food for thought...
>
>I am having some difficulty understanding the notion about getting permission to send Reiki. Is Reiki not a loving energy...and would it not be to the person Highest good (whatever that may be for them)and would it be any different then sending the person a prayer???!!
>
>I would like to hear others feelings on this.
>
>Love and light,
>
>copper

Following are a couple of things I'd presented on another message board, re. sending energy without permission. Whether what W.B.J. had sent was reiki? I don't know.

Bruce

****************

After years of having it packed away in storage, I finally found my copy of William Brugh Joy's book, _Joy's Way_. The author has impressive medical credentials and also learned to do energy work (and on his own "discovered" chakras, before being given information about them). I'd remembered the following passage, excerpted from p. 125-126 of the book, but wasn't able to quote it until I'd found the book again. (There's more immediately before and after, but I don't want to make the quote _too_ long.) Anyway, it describes the author's energy work on a patient (without either the author's cognizance or the patient's permission), and the patient's response. Comments, anyone?

Bruce

“Once or twice a week for almost a year and a half, most often in the middle of the night, her convalescent home would call me with word that she was in heart failure, with intense pain and marked difficulty in breathing. I would dress and rush to the nursing home, order all the necessary medication and treatments and then go in and give her a pep talk. Within half an hour she would be resting comfortably, and I would leave the nursing home feeling uplifted: I had once more saved the woman’s life. What I did not recognize was that, in giving her the pep talk, I was transferring energy to her.

“The last time I saw her alive, I had again ordered all the appropriate treatments and she was just coming out of an episode. I was in the middle of giving her my usual encouragement when she suddenly said, ‘Why are you doing all this to me?’ I instantly understood; and I was shocked, then moved to tears. While part of my psyche felt rejection in her words, it was overridden by my deeper sense of compassion and understanding. I stepped out into the hall, where I could openly allow my tears. The woman had confronted me with my fear of facing my own death. In that moment my underlying motivation in ‘curing’ patients and extending myself to keep them from dying was all too clear. I was saving them because I saw them as symbols of me; because I was afraid to die, I was forcing this woman to live – against her will. With this realization I felt a snap inside me, as if some hitherto unknown force field between the woman and me had suddenly been broken. She died within twenty minutes.”

************

Helen, you're exactly right -- W.B. Joy's patient, who didn't want to continue in this life, was unable to resist the energy that he sent, which contributed to keeping her alive. When he finally did understand that he shouldn't send energy to her, she died very shortly (20 minutes) after the energetic link between them was broken. BTW, Joy also thinks that family members often unwittingly do the same sort of transference of energy upon a patient who is in the process of dying.

Joyce, I admire the clarity that you had in receiving your father-in-law's communication, and your willingness to honor his intent. I'd like to believe that anyone would recognize non-verbal rejection of the energy-sender's intent, but the quoted passage from Joy's book makes me doubtful about that. It wasn't until his patient made a verbal protest that he realized what was happening. More generally, for most of us, I think it's awfully easy to confuse our own ideas of what should happen w/ what the recipient wants. E.g., awhile ago, someone on the previous version of this message board posted that it's okay to send energy without permission because the energy is love and well who would reject love? Joy's patient, for one. So -- responding to that other poster's rationale -- I think we have to be mindful of the distinction between love and stalking. (He also said there's just one energy, and that's love; I think that's rather silly. Under that reasoning, standing in front of an x-ray machine and irradiating yourself for a few hours would be the same as standing under a light bulb for a few hours. Yeah, right.)

Anyway. As Helen suggested in another thread, it's easy to slip into sending energy over to someone because it makes the sender feel better to do so. It's more difficult to discern and honor the will of the prospective recipient. So difficult, in fact, that some take it upon themselves to rationalize that "he _said_ no, but . . . ."

Dear Bruce,

I think you have posted something very meaningful that puts the whole permission issue into some kind of real perspective, finally. And, yes, I would have to agree, I don't always want people to pray for me, unless of course, I have given them perimission to do so.

Blessings and best wishes,
Roxy

copper,

If you want my complete dissertation on the subject do a search on my name and 'permission'.

The short version boils down to respect for another's expressed wishes, privacy, bounderies and just plain good manners.

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

gavstar,

>I tell you what, you never find the old masters saying you cant

Given the culture I think it would likely have been a non issue in the first place. It most probably would have been considered very bad manners.

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

This is a subject that always raises a lot of emotion, with those on both sides of the coin holding fast that they are right.
I do think that to fully realise the implictaions of being sent Reiki without permission is one that you only fully understand when you are on recieving end of it and you look deeper into the free will aspect of it.

Personally I see not asking as a cop out. People are frightened of asking for fear of rejection, so send regardless, using the higher self excuse as justifaction.
Soem will even insist that ifthe Reiki is not wanted, then it will not be recieved. Yes right, like pyschic attacks can also be repelled that way to.
Diana Stien does give a really good example in her book. She tells that she was offered Reiki and said no, but the person who offered thought she knew best and sent anyway, It took Diana and a freind 3 days to clear the symbols that had been sent for protection.

The subject is however not always clear cut. THose that advocate sending regardless will come up with silly examples as an argument in their favour.

The following is something that James Deacon has written.
It is simple and I think covers all bases, not to follow it is in my opinion showing a basic lack of regard for the free will of others.

Towards a Charter on Free Will & Spiritual Self-Determination...
HONOURING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL
"Every Individual (capable of conscious response) has the right to be consulted in advance concerning any proposed Therapeutic, Spiritual, or other form of 'Intervention' which has not been specifically requested by the Individual; and every Individual has the right to refuse such 'Intervention' - whether or not it is supposedly in their 'best interests' to so do."
.. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ......... ..James Deacon

Namaste

Rob
Truth is not a property of language because language has not been able to express abstract ideas as efficiently as concrete items

I would like to add my thoughts. I never ask for permission, unless someone is complaining of a malady right in front of me and I am offering hands-on services.

I do not at all feel this is a cop-out.

Since Reiki has Divine Consciousness, it will not violate free will. This isn't a cop-out; it's the nature of it's being. I'd like to use and example to illustrate:

One of my favorite Reiki activities is allowing myself to open to the Reiki Pool during our church meditations, usually while we are singing The Lord's Prayer. I open myself to the energy and allow it to flow through me and to the rest of the congregation. I do not ask every member in the church for their permission, either in person or in the ethereal plane. I only allow it to flow, and if someone is not open to the energy, it will not go to them.

In this sense, I never try to *force* Reiki upon someone whom I know is not comfortable or open with energy healing. If I plan to offer distance healings (many for online friends/aquaintances who've posted about troubles in their lives), it's often hard to ask permission first. I think it's completely unnecessary. I send the healing - if they are open and receptive, it will help them. If they are not open and receptive, it will not affect them at all, but it will still give ME a healing as I do the healing, and possibly flow elsewhere to someone who IS open and NEEDS the energy.

Once, I was sitting in the grocery parking lot while I waited for my Beloved to come out. I saw a little old lady pushing a buggy, limping and looking pretty worse-for-wear. She was across the parking lot, my baby was sleeping in the car, and approaching her to ask if she'd appreciate a healing was out of the question. I just sent the energy her way. If she hadn't wanted it, it would have gone to someone else or just permeated my car, whatever. I do think she was receptive, though, as I noticed that her step became lighter and it looked as if she moved much easier.

That said, I was once of a mind to send Reiki to my step-dad to help with a personal problem he was having. I got the distinct impression that doing so would be a Bad Idea. Obviously, Reiki wouldn't *harm* him. However, he and I have A VERY LOT of 'bad blood' between us. I was working through my forgiveness process, and felt that offering healing energy would help. I've never felt as if I *shouldn't* give Reiki to someone. But this time I did feel that way, and so I refrained. It occurred to me that perhaps I was not doing as well as I thought I was with my forgiveness process, and my energy was just not conducive to his healing in that particular matter. Now I have sent him Reiki to try to heal the hurt between us, with no inner promptings not to. I've sent Reiki to the two of us in the past, helping to heal certain abuses that took place. But with the one instance, I followed my instinct and did not send Reiki.

Your heart will guide you. If you do not trust your inner voice enough, err on the side of caution and send the healing anyway. If it's not meant to be, it will not do anything to the recipient, but the act of channeling the energy will be beneficial to YOU.

Thanks for the opportunity to share.

ahavah said, inter alia,

>I would like to add my thoughts. I never ask for permission, unless someone is complaining of a malady right in front of me and I am offering hands-on services.

Why do you ask for permission in those circumstances?

>I do not at all feel this is a cop-out.
>
>Since Reiki has Divine Consciousness,
> it will not violate free will.

Why do you believe that reiki has divine consciousness?

> If I plan to offer distance healings (many for online friends/aquaintances who've posted about troubles in their lives), it's often hard to ask permission first.

No it's not. Just e-mail or PM them. If they say yes, then great, go ahead and send energy to them. If they don't agree, then don't do it. Rather straightforward.

I think it's completely unnecessary. I send the healing - if they are open and receptive, it will help them. If they are not open and receptive, it will not affect them at all, but it will still give ME a healing as I do the healing, and possibly flow elsewhere to someone who IS open and NEEDS the energy.

If _you_ do the healing, then what does that have to do with divine consciousness?

If it's not meant to be, it will not do anything to the recipient,

Peter has already explained in this forum that it's sometimes just not so. It's a nice little dogma that got started somewhere, but dogma has to give way to experience. Otherwise, we're stuck in the realm of ipse dixit assertions, along the lines of "It's so because I said it's so."

Beyond the issue of whether harm can result, there's also the issue of respecting the individual's conscious choice. E.g., some atheists object to being prayed for, and I'm not so dismissive of their wishes as to think that I should go ahead and pray for them anyway "because it won't do them any harm."

Bruce

QUOTE "Since Reiki has Divine Consciousness, it will not violate free will. This isn't a cop-out; it's the nature of it's being. I'd like to use and example to illustrate: "

This sums it up very nicely...well done. Noone has yet truly responded to the discalimr that we send reiki only for the highest good and therefore if it is not wanted or is not for the higher good then it will...errr..well I guess it boots off into the universe as loving energy.

Please can some one give me a really good response to this..I can be swayed but how this hurts or invades soemone at the moment is beyond me.....especially if one sends it with the aforementioned "get out clause " as it were! My views is not set in stone but if we are taught that reiki does not har whats the issue!

hi yer Rainbow,
sweetie, Reiki 'IS NOT A RELIGION'............
i was taught that you should ask for 'permission' BUT, even if the answer was "NO", you simply sent it anyway, if they didn't want it, then it will be rejected.
better rush & retrieve that soap box eh :-}
luv yer kiddo, Wendy Ann xxx

Bruce, judge not,
'WHO' says 'you' are right & 'we' are wrong??
luv wendy ann xxx

perhaps another another question that should be asked when sending Reiki without permission is "What gives me the right to decide what happens to someone else"?
The simple intervention, which is done in good faith does violate not on earthly rules Of politness and ethics), but also spiritual law.
Many people act as if they have become infallible once they recieve a Reiki attunement, they think they attain the ability to make other peoples minds up. It doesget dressed up, as we have seen, with the good sayings being used for justifacation. Like I asked their higher self, or Reiki does no harm,or my favourite. If it is not wanted, it will be rejected. They are all cop outs used by someone who is afraid to ask and also think that it is ok to intervene unasked in someone elses journey. They may be helped on a tempory basis, but long term they have not dealt with their problem (This concept has been covered so many times here)

It is however well intentioned. Very often it is a case of compassion getting confused with compassionate action.

Perhaps a better question to ask ourselves before sending unasked, is "what is my need?" This has to be honestly. What is it in their plight, that you think that by sending Reiki will make you feel better?

The very simple free will thing that I posted earlier is something that in my opinion should be engraved on all healers hearts and minds

Gavstar has asked about the Reiki does no harm thing.
The thing is, how on earth would they know that it was the reiki that did it, they didn't know they were getting it becuase it was not mentioned to them at any point that Reiki was entering the equation.

Bruce has it right in his last post. Some good thought provoking questions there.
Namaste

Rob
Truth is not a property of language because language has not been able to express abstract ideas as efficiently as concrete items

Cant ever imagine being too afraid to ask anyone if they want reiki sent so it would never happen to me.....in fact during my time as a reiki practitioner I have always told peeps I am going to send them reiki and if they say no I dont so I am sort fo arguing agisnt my self here ....

To be honest there are so many people in my life who love it I am happy to dedicate my time to sedning them reiki rather than wondering about if I should or should not send it to those who might not....

This is undoubtedly one of the most contentious issues of reiki and will always have two sides fo the fence....

<My last comment on the subject is "DO WHAT FEELS RIGHT"....generally that is the righ thing to do the reiki precepts dont cover this so it cant be too horrendous!

Hi ROb////

Namaste.
Only God can judge us if we are right or wrong. My grand dad was bed ridden and was not concious. One night, he suffered so much from pain that he was continuosly shouting. I didnt feel like sitting there n watching him suffer like that. How was I supposed to ask his permission if he wanted reiki? My intention was to help him to some extent. Thats all that mattered. Compassion took over and I gave him reiki. Soon he stopped his cries and was at peace. My action would have been judged by God that day. Accordingly I would have accumulated my karma.

Hi, Wendy,

In other posts on this thread, I indicated why sending energy w/o permission can be harmful (see, e.g., William Brugh Joy's account of unwittingly imposing energy on a patient in his medical practice) or, at very least, disrespectful. I didn't just make a bare-bones assertion that sending energy can harm, or that it violates choice; instead, I gave a factual basis for those statements. If you'll do the same, then there will be some ground for discussion. Wouldn't that be better than being stuck in an exchange of "Is not" and "Is too?"

What I'm asking for is the factual basis for ahavah's assertions. If she'll answer the questions I asked, then there will be some basis for discernment. (As my mechanics prof. once said, "This is not an axiomatic system; at some point, reality has to intrude." In other words, when functional statements are asserted to be true, then they should have some supporting factual basis.) Do you know whether there are any facts underlying her assertions? Some clarification -- mentioning those facts, if there are any -- would help greatly here.

Take care.

Bruce

wamps said on

>Bruce, judge not,
> 'WHO' says 'you' are right & 'we' are wrong??
>luv wendy ann xxx

Uh, Wendy? If you're going to send reiki regardless of whether the other person assents, then why do you ask permission in the first place? I'm trying to understand that, so your explanation would be appreciated, sincerely.

Bruce

wamps said on

>hi yer Rainbow,
>sweetie, Reiki 'IS NOT A RELIGION'............
>i was taught that you should ask for 'permission' BUT, even if the answer was "NO", you simply sent it anyway, if they didn't want it, then it will be rejected.
>better rush & retrieve that soap box eh :-}
>luv yer kiddo, Wendy Ann xxx