The Reiki Cafe 

Did you read the free will thing I posted earlier. It covers that situation.

Towards a Charter on Free Will & Spiritual Self-Determination...
HONOURING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL
"Every Individual (capable of conscious response) has the right to be consulted in advance concerning any proposed Therapeutic, Spiritual, or other form of 'Intervention' which has not been specifically requested by the Individual; and every Individual has the right to refuse such 'Intervention' - whether or not it is supposedly in their 'best interests' to so do."
.. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ......... ..James Deacon

Namaste

Rob
Truth is not a property of language because language has not been able to express abstract ideas as efficiently as concrete items

Good points, alamelu, about sending to someone at a time when he doesn't have the capacity to make a conscious choice. By analogy, the medical profession has addressed such situations as an emergency exception to the need for obtaining informed consent. But informed consent is still needed when the person _does_ have the capacity to make a conscious choice. And I agree about accumulation of karma.

Bruce

alamelu said on

>Namaste.
>Only God can judge us if we are right or wrong. My grand dad was bed ridden and was not concious. One night, he suffered so much from pain that he was continuosly shouting. I didnt feel like sitting there n watching him suffer like that. How was I supposed to ask his permission if he wanted reiki? My intention was to help him to some extent. Thats all that mattered. Compassion took over and I gave him reiki. Soon he stopped his cries and was at peace. My action would have been judged by God that day. Accordingly I would have accumulated my karma.

Hello again, gavstar,

On another message board, someone mentioned that her sleep was interrupted often each night over a period of several months, by someone sending distant reiki to her periodically. She was exhausted and requested that the sender stop, but the sender persisted. Was the sender justified in continuing, because he or she heard that reiki can't do any harm?

Bruce

Namaste.

Who makes the rules? Just humans!
what makes it right to give reiki when the recipient is unable to give permission?
What makes it right to give reiki without permission when there is a group situation or major disasters and the same is not right on an individual basis? May those people caught in Tsunami wanted to die that way?
So we have made all these rules based on our logic on this realm. We are giving ourselves too much credit and not giving enough credit to the universal intelligence to do its thing. The best thing to do is to remove ourselves from the process and just be channels: this is what reiki asked us to do.

Mal

Dear Bruce,
Thank you for that story that illustrated a point that is difficult to express with words. Medical workers often have to come to terms with this issue early on in their careers when their supreme efforts to save people fail.
A patient with cancer whispered to me that he was ready to die but his family would not let him go & he couldnt bear to tell them, let me go. His brave face was for them & he suffered because of it. What we think we know about others is not necessarily the reality.

peace & joy,
holobon

Dear Rob,
Years ago it was considered appropriate for medical personnel to force patients to take treatments for their own good, it was not considered assault at the time.

peace & joy,
holobon

rob,

Hi,

Yes, I really don't know why this seems to impair peoples' sphincter control so much. It seems folks are usually going to do what they are bent on doing anyhow (that is part of Karma, afterall) so why get so up in arms?

Cheers,

RC

Hi All
Great point Mal. Lets just be open channels.
Thank you all for your input Great Board.

TNT

Ahavah,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- on what basis do you aver that Reiki has Divine Consciousness (or any other consciousness, for that matter)??

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Wendy,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- unfortunately, in practical cases, not debates, the "it will be rejected" scenario simply does not always play out that way (cases involving folks with severe psychiatirc disorders being a prime example)

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

rob1957 said on

>Many people act as if they have become infallible once they recieve a Reiki attunement, they think they attain the ability to make other peoples minds up

Hi Rob,

Yup, we all bring the same things to Reiki as we do anything else, our baggage.

If we think before Reiki that we know what is best for other people and/or we are the meddling interferring type that doesn't change just because we are Reiki. We have to work on changing and gaining a new understanding. Many people have found that after working with the energy and practices of the system for an extended period of time that many of their concepts change and they have different understandings of many things, often the issue of permission is one of them.

This is such a large issue in the Reiki community that I have an open letter I hand out to Level II classes, I know that you have seen a version of this before as have most of the people who have been here for awhile but I am going to post it in the hopes that it will give others something to think about.

An Open Letter on Permission

Usui called Reiki a system of personal mastery in which physical healing was considered secondary and not emphasized, also there was significant time spent at level I working with the energy as well as in the meditations and practices before (if ever) moving to level II. For these reasons and the fact that the system comes out of the Japanese culture, permission was likely a non-issue and so was not addressed. We are in a time and culture quite different from Usui’s. Things are faster, there is less time spent growing into the system and it’s practices. I think that some of the understandings that come with patience and practice may be lagging behind as a result of this need to rush. If we are to truly attempt to live the principles I believe that we need to closely examine the motives that drive our practices.

It is my feeling that permission is essential to the practice of Reiki. When we practice we need to honor boundaries and abandon our concepts of what someone else may need. My RM is a masseuse and 'lays hands' on people daily for a living. She informs new clients that she is also a Reiki practitioner and obtains permission before working on them. If they decline or do not give permission she does not use Reiki.

For me this whole subject is a matter of respect and humility. Do I respect the rights, privacy, and wishes of another concerning themselves, or do I assert my idea of what they need or what I think may be necessary to alleviate my perception of their suffering. No is no, it doesn't matter if it is said softly or with a shout. My mother always said 'put yourself in their position and tell me how you would feel'. When I do that I understand that I would feel disrespected, violated, that being the case I have no option but to respect their wishes. Respect and humility help us honor boundaries and directly support a recipient in developing trust and feeling empowered to direct their own experiences within an integrated complementary and mainstream care plan for wellbeing, which hopefully includes Reiki

When someone says they don't want us to send or they refuse hands on work then we need to respect their decision. We also need to give them the opportunity to consciously make that decision for themselves. We have to learn to respect other peoples boundaries and have healthy ones ourselves. We can't say 'well, they said no but I can see in their eyes that they are in pain and they want this' or 'I will ask their higher self'. For me, asking the 'higher self' is imposing my will on another without accepting any responsibility for my actions. Are we multiple personalities? Are any of us so adept that we can say with absolute certainty that the answer we receive comes not from our own wishes but from another’s higher self? (I wonder, does anyone ever get told 'No' by another’s higher self.) Is one part of us so much better than the other that it can over ride a conscious decision or make a decision for us as if we were a small child at it our parent? And If indeed we do have all these different 'selves' isn't one of the goals of Reiki to become an integrated, whole entity? Why, if we are working to take back our power through healing ourselves, would we want to give that away to anything? Others feel that they are merely a vehicle by which others access the energy. Again there is no responsibility here. These are excuses for imposing our needs and will on others. I come back again to the thought that it is shifting responsibility from ourselves to some other thing/one and if we are ever to heal we need to accept responsibility for ourselves on every level. The decision to accept or reject our offer needs to be a conscious one.

Karma accrues through action or lack of action. All the choices you make accumulate karma. I don't see karma as a negative, or a positive, but rather a neutral. It doesn't punish or reward. Like nature, it just is. When we send without permission we are saying we know what is best and whether we realize it or not we have some measure of responsibility for our action. We accrue karma.

Some also say that if you are a compassionate person then you are compelled to send to relieve suffering. Sometimes compassion is knowing when to stand back and let things unfold.

There are those that hold the view that Reiki is ‘intelligent’ and ‘can do no harm’ therefore it is always acceptable to send energy. Harm however is not usually defined. Reiki is about healing on all levels and the energy can initiate a clearing process, physical, emotional, and/or spiritual, which can sometimes be dramatic. Healing is a process and each person’s process won’t necessarily conform to our expectations. Adding words like ‘for the highest good’ won’t prevent this from happening. It may in fact facilitate a clearing response. Subjecting someone to the possibility of such a clearing without their knowledge is, in my estimation, harmful and an abuse of our ability.

Working on someone else isn’t about us and what we think needs attention, it is about the recipient. There is an old saying "there are three kinds of business in the world, yours, mine and God's. Make sure you know which is which". When we give Reiki without permission, we are meddling in another person’s business, overstepping boundaries, and overriding their right to choose. Whether we are physically laying on hands or sending distantly we are invading their personal and energy space. We would never presume to enter someone’s home, or borrow their possessions without first having permission. Reiki is also about respect and that includes respecting the decisions and boundaries of others, without making judgements, even when we don’t agree with them. Doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals don’t go about dragging people into their offices and forcing treatment on them (as a matter of fact I think the law prohibits them from treating someone who refuses it, besides, it’s very bad manners).

Seriously, what is the problem with asking? Why do some of us have such a difficult time accepting ‘no’ for an answer? Why the need to do stealth Reiki? I think this has more to do with our needs and fears than with those of the person we are sending to. When most people say that someone 'needs' Reiki, they are really saying that what they are seeing makes them so uncomfortable that they need to ease their own personal discomfort.

Giving or receiving Reiki isn’t only about the boundaries of others; it is about our boundaries as well. We also need healthy boundaries in order to heal and integrate. This includes being able to say no if need be to someone who asks for or demands our time and services. We have every right and in some cases even the responsibility to refuse Reiki at any level.

I have heard people say that sometimes another person unconsciously draws the energy through them without their consent. Others don’t unconsciously draw Reiki energy through us without our consent, when this happens it is because we have, at some time, set the intent for it to happen. When I go dancing I am in a crowded room and physical contact with others is unavoidable just moving through the crowd. In a room filled with hundreds of people there have to be those who are in serious need of relief on any number of levels, but never has anyone, not even a dance partner, drawn Reiki through me.

Free will is the key to any responsible practice and to honor each person's free will is part of our job. We need to examine our motives closely, be mindful of why and how we use the energy, and be consciously responsible for our actions.

walk in beauty,
Rebecca

Yes it does dosn't it LOL
Yet it is a quite simple concept that gets very misunderstood.
Namaste

Rob
Truth is not a property of language because language has not been able to express abstract ideas as efficiently as concrete items

Amen
That is good Rebecca. If you don't mind I will use it form my students as well as quote it endlessly when this subject comes up next time :-}}}

Namaste

Rob
Truth is not a property of language because language has not been able to express abstract ideas as efficiently as concrete items

Rob,

I thought I had already given permission, maybe it was to someone else. (rapidly nearing 'that' age you know :-))

Of course you may, I don't need credits.

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

Very well stated, Rebecca.

Bruce

Bruce,

Once when sending before bed to the grandchild of a friend (with parents permission) I decided to also send to the friend (I had received her permission on other ocassions in the past and made the assumption that once received I had ongoing permission)

Anyway, I sent. The next day when talking to her I told her I had also sent to her after sending to her grandchild. Her reply was "so it was you that kept me up all night" apparently she had awoke when I sent and had been up the rest of the night after that.

I never again made the assumption that given once (or even several times) permission was implied at other times.

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

Hi Wendy-Ann,

Ok here comes the soap box again :))

I was just trying to use religion as an example.I know that Reiki has absolutely nothing to do with religion :)

How do you know for sure if the energy will be rejected and at what point do you know that it is 'safe' to send it without prior knowledge or consent? Is this because someone told you it was safe to do so, how do they know, where's their proof? Are you absolutely certain that sending Reiki to someone who might be out of their head on drugs or alcohol, or someone feeling suicidal with deep psychosis might not perceive the Reiki as something other than it is and be pushed over the edge? Do you still think it's okay to just send it anyway and take the chance?

You also said ' I was taught that you should ask for 'permission' BUT, even if the answer was "NO", you simply sent it anyway, if they didn't want it, then it will be rejected.'

I'm sorry but it horrifies me that a teacher would teach that. No absolutely should mean no. If a woman says no to a guy making advances towards her and he chooses to go ahead and do it anyway because he thinks its okay, then she has been totally violated. To me this is almost the same thing on an energy level. I consider it to be a violation of someone's energy field and if I'm being blunt completely disrespectful. Why is it because we are dealing with Reiki, that we think that makes it okay ? If I offer Reiki to my 3 year old and he declines it, I don't force it on him because I think that I know best, I respect his right to say no even though I might think that Reiki would really help him.

Okay soap box being put in recycling bin this time :)

Gentle Blessings
Helen

Wow! What a wonderful discussion about PERMISSION!

As many of you have said, this topic comes up over and over again and has caused endless conflict over the years the board has been going.
But this is the first time I have seen the arguments so clearly and eloquently made.
Thank you Bruce, Diosa, Rob and the many others.

My personal beliefs happen to follow those of the 'old fashioned folks' ( thanks Gav ;-)).
Anything else and I think we are taking on responsibilities that are not ours to take on.
But the biggest reason for me believing as I do is that being human, NONE OF US are clear channels (I do not believe being 100% clear is possible), which means we are sending all sorts of other things, OTHER THAN REIKI. It's the 'other than Reiki' which is so dangerous. Trust me. I've felt it's effects. Anyone who wants details about that, can email me separately.

Of course, getting permission, does not suddenly mean we are not sending 'other than Reiki', but it does mean the person receiving knows and understands the risks. And if something goes wrong, they will know who to contact and try to correct any damage. If "Reiki et al' is sent unbeknown to the receiver, they may not know what has hit them, nor who to turn to for help.

One last word on this topic regarding 'Permission from the Higher Self' aspect of this discussion, a good friend wrote the following (it was kind of written 'tongue-in-the-cheek', but I think it says it all)...

Here's my solution to the whole "permission from the higher self" debate (feel free to write this down and pass it on to all your Reiki friends). I'll call it the "Higher Self Permission Solution" cause it sounds cool. Here it is:

Tell your own Higher Self to contact the other person's Higher Self and ask if they would like to be sent Reiki, and in what form (treatment, general energy, etc). If the other person's Higher Self wants it, allow your own Higher Self to do the Reiki for them.

This completely removes the individual Ego from the equation, for it is quite reasonable to believe that if your lowly conscious mind can do Reiki, your uberpowerful Higher Self is certainly capable of doing it too.

If you are unwilling to trust your own Higher Self with this task, it would probably be a good time to start asking yourself some serious questions about your motivations, and why you would trust your ego asking someone else's Higher Self's opinion when you don't even trust your own Higher Self's opinion and skills.

Grateful thanks to everyone who has participated in this discussion, even those with differing views. They help to clarify my stance.

Blessings
~ Natalie ~

Nats,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- Me?? An olde fashioned folk??

bagl

- it strikes me that the so-called Higher Self and the so-called Lower Self do not always communicate very well or clearly (one of the factors, perhaps, contributing to your comment about we are not perfectly clear channels)

>:-}}

- so, if my 'higher self and my lower self are occasionally inept in communicating how can my higher self always be 'trusted' to be that clear communicating with someone else?? It is my lower self makes that request, afterall.

>:-}}

- one view is that any time "lower self" is involved, ego is involved and shuffling the responsibility for our actions off onto some 'putative' higher self simply won't do

>:-}}

- but, as always, we do as we feel is best and let the Karma accumualte as it may, so to speak

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Hehehe....I know....I was amused to think of myself as 'old fashioned' too. Maybe 'conservative' is a better description? ;-) But even that...just how can people who do the stuff we do, be considered 'conservative'?
All good fun :-) It pays not to take ourselves too seriously...

Re the higher/lower self stuff...I agree with you entirely.

Blessings
~ Natalie ~

gavstar,

>
My last comment on the subject is "DO WHAT FEELS RIGHT"....generally that is the righ thing to do the reiki precepts dont cover this so it cant be too horrendous!
>

I don't know if this is your quote or not. I've tried finding it in the thread so I could reply directly to it but haven't been able to so will do it here.

I think that it is definitely covered if not expressly then by implication under the heading of honoring and respecting others.

Doing what feels right? A major cop out that one is. It is very popular today to put many things under that umbrella but think about this. If one person is doing what feels right and another feels that their rights are somehow diminished by that action where is the line drawn.

Another person's rights absolutely END where mine BEGIN. I have the right to refuse anything I feel is an intrusion on my being (physical or energy) and I have the right to be conscoiously consulted beforehand.

(if that offends anyone simply change the wording to read My rights End where yours Begin and see if you are still offended)

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

mal said on

We are giving ourselves too much credit and not giving enough credit to the universal intelligence to do its thing. The best thing to do is to remove ourselves from the process and just be channels: this is what reiki asked us to do.

Now then, how does that apply to gavstar's exhortation to "do what feels right?" After all, that's relying on one's self's emotions, not removing oneself from the process.

Bruce

Getting a little dogmatic about this subject RObster! I read and converse with you on other forums and on Pm and Email and its great but the only concret view you are unmovable on is this...I admire your dedication to it I really honestly do but we must (and I have learnt this from you lot) just be open to the possibility that you might be wrong...well perhaps we can all agree that there is no such thing as right and wrong in this instance just whats right for the individual and leave it at tat FOREVER!

See you on the other forums no doubt and hoe all is well with you.

Possibly then the wording DOING WHAT FEELS RIGHT is wrong....perhaps we should say "every situation require us to think and do the most intuitive and natural thing and as reiki has tis own conscious the path fo reikik will flow if it is required and is for the higeher good...or something like that !

Why do we want to give reiki to soemone who deosnt want ti anyway?

There are plenty of books on it...read the reiki source book directly from Usuis teachings it has it all in there...

Just letting you know FK