The Reiki Cafe Message Baord Main Navigation

Reiki Discussion

Board to talk about Reiki
View Post# Switch Board
The Reiki Cafe Message Baord Main Navigation
ViewMessages Per Page

Dainichi Nyorei

posted at 4/16/2006 2:55 PM
ID# 91468
In the book The Spirit of Reiki it is written that because Dr Usui was human, "in principle" it should be possible
for us to accomplish what he did but it would be difficult.
"It requires the permission of the patron deity of Reiki, Dainichi Nyorei". The book also later desribes DKM as buddha consciousness,which Dainichi Nyorei is associated with. Curious if anyone was taught this in any of their classes. First time Im aware of this teaching.
It would certainly make sense, if this is accurate,
that early Reiki in the states,the teachings for Westerners,was different than that in Japan. Perhaps makes a case for Reiki as spiritual endeavor more so than anything else? Strikes me,however,as less than honest that the spiritual roots would be hidden. Combine that with the high fees that were charged & well.....
A personal experience during my first attunement makes sense to me after reading about Dainichi Nyorei.
I also understand,more than I did before,the fears about Reiki from those with different spiritual beliefs.

peace & joy,
Holobon

re: Dainichi Nyorei

posted at 4/16/2006 5:32 PM
ID# 91471
This is a reply to: 91468
I think all 4 traditional symbols fall under this category.
DKM is part of a longer older mantra. Which if I remember correctly does have the attributes you describe.

I do know the more traditional understandings of the symbols have deeper meanings than we are usually taught in the west.

I do not however agree that one has to have the patronage of these particular deities.

I have heard it said that originally when Usui Sensei developed the system there were more levels than what we have now. What we have now was these levels condensed more or less. As time went on the number of levels lowered. But it has been said that the highest level in this original system was a step over Usui himself, because he believed it possible someone could transcend his own accomplishments. It is also said noone has reached where Usui Sensei was at in terms of spiritual development ( well no practioner of Usui Reiki Ryoho anyways).

But i think alot of this has to do with overmystifying the man that was Usui. He was the creator of the system and hence in the eyes of others i find it unlikely anyone will ever transcend him because in our minds he is often elevated to a status we often view as unreachable.

A;sp we know that Usui did not create the symbols. He chose them. they existed before Usui Reiki Ryoho. So perhaps this has to do with the deeper esoteric meanings behind the symbols, but that is not neccessarily the intent of Usui Sensei himself as far as the deific connection. Who knows on that aspect though.*shrug*

re: Dainichi Nyorei

posted at 4/17/2006 9:26 AM
ID# 91474
This is a reply to: 91468
holobon,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- I have heard that Dainichi Nyorei is the chief 'diety' in Shingdon Buddhism

- if Usui Sensei was a follower of that sect perhaps that is how Dainichi Nyorei became associated with Reiki

- but Dainichi Nyorei is not, I would offer, the patron diety of Reiki and I doubt whether there is any reliable evidence that Usui Sensei ever said one needs the permission of some deity to become as skilled as Usui Sensei himself

>:-}}

- as for what is taught in the West? Remember, when Reiki came to the West it came to a predominantly christian venue

- thus , in order to foster Reiki's acceptance (and for Teachers to get paying students) a good bit of license appears to have been taken - thus the so-called christianization of reiki

- remember too, ULE is not in the exclusive purview of any religion

>:-}}

- but, perhaps our occasional resident historian, James, will have some stuff to add

>:-}}

- for myself? I just can't get wound up about one self-serving sectarian claim or another

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

re: Dainichi Nyorei

posted at 4/17/2006 10:46 AM
ID# 91475
This is a reply to: 91474
firekeeper said on

>- but, perhaps our occasional resident historian, James, will have some stuff to add

THE SYMBOLS - UNSUBSTANTIATED ASSOCIATIONS
Copyright © 2005 James Deacon

Four symbols - no less, no more

Whether the symbols were a part of Reiki from the very outset, or were added some time later, one thing that we know for certain is that there were four symbols - and only four.

However, since the early 1980's onwards, several Reiki practitioners have created their own personalized 'brands' or styles of Reiki.

Some of these people created modified versions of the original symbols (e.g. mirror images, etc), or even replaced one or more of the originals with a completely different symbol. Others use modified versions in conjunction with the originals or have added symbols from various different spiritual/esoteric systems, and also added brand new, channeled, symbols.

And, just as they had done with the actual symbols themselves, some of the creators of these new 'brands' of Reiki have also altered, added to, or even replaced the meaning and association - the core purpose, function and significance - of the original symbols, to suit their own personal beliefs.

It must be said that, in some instances, change to the actual significance of the symbols was due to little more than over-enthusiastic 'clutching at straws' in what was otherwise probably a genuine attempt to uncover , possible original symbol-associations that, it was believed, had somehow been 'misplaced' in the transmission of the system down through the 'Reiki Generations' from Usui-sensei's day.

The Four Elements

For example, some people decided that the four symbols must be linked to the Four Elements: CKR to Earth, SHK to Water, HSZSN to Fire, DKM to Air. (However, some, who had subscribed to the Four Symbols/Elements association, on later discovering that the concept of the Four Elements is actually a western concept and that in Japanese esoteric thought there are Five Elements, rather than admitting that the association was therefore somewhat flawed, decided that originally there must have been a fifth symbol, and set off on a quest to discover this 'long lost' Reiki symbol!)

Heaven and Earth

Others - influenced no doubt by Taoist yin-yang theory - decided that CKR must represent the 'Earthly' energy, and SHK the 'Heavenly' or spiritual energy.
(As to where the other two symbols come in, well this was and is usually glossed over.)

'Re-Buddhafied'

Yet others, focussing on the belief that Usui-sensei was a Tendai Buddhist*, decided to attempt to, as it were, 're-Buddha-fy' the significance of the four symbols.

*(Even though there is no more 'hard' evidence to prove Usui-sensei was Tendai than there is to prove he was a Christian - as was previously believed)

For example, it is probable that the SHK symbol was originally derived from the shuji (Siddham character) Kiriku - which in Buddhist belief is associated with both Amida Butsu and Senju Kannon (Kanzeon) Bosatsu.

Following on with this line of thought so it seems, some in the 'pro-Tendai camp' decided that each of the Reiki symbols must represent a particular Buddhist Deity, and therefore also represent the symbolic significance of that particular deity.

Yet, while the three symbols we know as the Reiki symbols SHK, HSZSN and DKM are also seen to have certain significance within Buddhism, this does not mean that these symbols - when used in the context of the Reiki system - have the same significance as they do in their Buddhist usage.

Nonetheless, these pro-Tendai Reiki folk promptly proceeded to assign a Buddhist deity to each of the Reiki symbols.

As Buddhas (Butsu) 'out-rank' Bodhisattvas (Bosatsu), Amida won out over Senju Kannon and was assigned to the Reiki symbol believed to have been derived from their joint shuji symbol, i.e. the SHK. Some even went as far as to change the name of the symbol to: Muryouju, others to: Mugen Muryouju [Muryouju is the Japanese name for Amida in his manifestation as 'Buddha of Infinite Life']

But as the male deity Senju Kannon is a very popular figure in Japanese Buddhism, it was presumably decided that he could not be left out, so Senju Kannon Bosatsu was assigned to HSZSN. Though, what connection there may be between the significance of HSZSN in its Reiki usage and this particular Bosatsu, is unclear. The same goes for the supposed connection between the CKR symbol and the Buddhist deity assigned to it: the Bosatsu (Dai)Seishi.

Finally, the pro-Tendai Reiki folk chose to assign the Butsu Dainichi (or Dainichi Nyorai as he is known in Japanese Esoteric Buddhism) to the DKM symbol. [Perhaps it should also be noted that Dainichi is actually the central Buddha of the Shingon school of Buddhism !!]


However, there were yet others who, in a similar attempt to link the symbols to specific Buddhist deities, decided (for whatever vague reason) that the Bodhisatva Monju should be assigned to SHK, the Buddha Ashuku to HSZSN, and Amida to DKM. Finally, they too opted to assign Dai Seichi to the CKR.


So, we have those who have attempted to overlay the Reiki symbols with (conflicting) Buddhist associations, others who have sought to clothe the symbols in western esoteric Four Elements associations, and yet others seeking to associate the symbols with Taoist concept of the energies of Heaven & Earth.

Kurama Kokyo

Yet others still, have sought to read into the Reiki symbols, associations with the beliefs of the Kurama Kokyo sect - an independent 'new religion' with strong Buddhist ties.

The primary reason for attempting to create this association seems to be due to the fact that the temple complex on Mount Kurama (where, of course, Usui-sensei experienced the 'Reiki Phenomenon' ) is the headquarters of the Kurama Kokyo sect.

Kurama Kokyo worships a Supreme Deity known as Sonten. Viewed as the source of all creation, Sonten, 'the universal soul', is perceived as a triune deity, expressing in the world as the three spiritual qualities of Power, Love and Light.

In Kurama Kokyo belief, these three qualities are personified in the form of three deities, since ancient times closely associated with Mount Kurama. The quality of Power, seen to correspond to the Earth, is embodied by the Shinto deity Maoson (or Gohomaoson). The quality of Love, seen to correspond to the Moon, is embodied by the now familiar Buddhist deity Senju Kannon. The quality of Light, seen to correspond to the Sun, is embodied by the Buddhist deity Bishamon-ten.

The Kurama Kokyo sect also makes use of the shuji symbols associated with each of these three deities to represent the spiritual qualities of Power, Love and Light - the three individual aspects of Sonten's nature.

On learning this, some Reiki practitioners, it seems, leapt to the conclusion that, as Usui Sensei had experienced the Reiki Phenomenon on Mount Kurama, which is the headquarters of the Kurama Kokyo sect, then the shuji used by the sect to represent Power, Love and Light must surely be the source of the first three of Usui-sensei's Reiki Symbols; especially seeing that Senju Kannon's kiriku was amongst the three.

Thus it was not long before the 'Power of Sonten', the 'Love of Sonten', and the 'Light of Sonten' - with their correspondences to Earth, Moon and Sun - were being equated with CKR, SHK, and HSZSN. Also, the shuji representing the 'Power of Sonten' and the 'Light of Sonten' were being hailed (though as it transpired, without foundation) as probable original forms of the CKR and HSZSN symbols respectively. (The shuji representing the 'Love of Sonten' i.e. kiriku, of course already being more widely accepted as the probable source of SHK).
To complete the symbol set, the unity that is Sonten himself was equated with the DKM.

However there was one slight flaw in attempting to associate the qualities of the Kurama Kokyo's Sonten deity with the Reiki symbols. Although the temple complex on Mount Kurama is currently the headquarters of the Kurama Kokyo, the sect and its Sonten doctrine did not even exist during Usui-sensei's lifetime.

In fact, it did not come into being until nearly a quarter of a century after Usui-sensei's death.

reiki ni rei

James

much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/17/2006 7:20 PM
ID# 91483
This is a reply to: 91468
Since the book is by Lubeck,Petter & Rand, I thought perhaps I had my head in the sand. Impressive amount of info given, guys. Thank you.
Was taught that CKR clockwise connects to Universe & counter clockwise to the Earth. In this book it states that "The CR symbol should always be drawn in a counterclockwise direction when viewed from the perspective of the energy source. It is a law of nature that subtle energies are accelerated through a field that turns counterclockwise and are drawn to the other side of this field on the material level with intensified effectiveness. ( This rule does not relate to the direction of rotation in whirls). It therefore applies equally north or south of the Equator".
Im not sure if they mean the energy source is the practitioner or the universe?
If the rule doesnt apply to the direction of the whirls, I have no idea what is meant by drawing the symbol conterclockwise.
Anyone care to comment on that "law of nature" from a physics or shamanistic view point? Anyone know of this law of nature?
peace & joy,
holobon

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/17/2006 9:58 PM
ID# 91485
This is a reply to: 91483
holobon,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- energy will accelerate in 'any direction' if accelerate is the descriptor you wish to use

- deosil and widdershins work according to the respective intentions aplied but, nevertheless, reflect the dualistic mind and dualistic thinking (existence is rather more complex than that)

- the energy of thought, for example, is, in some views, subject to rather different 'laws' than matter or energy to which quantum physics is said to apply

>:-}}

- and, what is meant by "the perspective of the energy source" sounds as if spoken by an Adept or an Erudite but, without specifing the parameters, says absoutely nothing (unless one is 'in on' this particular occult tradition - then, of course one need not ask))

bagl

- develop your mindfulness and compassionate intention and, I think, so much will fall into place, so to speak.

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/18/2006 1:33 AM
ID# 91487
This is a reply to: 91485
Dear Firekeeper,
Esoteric information is a bit of a drag for those outside the circle. And yes, in a manner of speaking, the passage said absolutely nothing. :)


peace & joy,
holobon

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/18/2006 9:23 AM
ID# 91490
This is a reply to: 91487
holobon,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- I wandered into a bit on accupuncture on one of the 'fitness' channels last night which was fairly OK and did have several physicians saying that accupuncture is more widely recommended now and that the FDA has approved the 'tools' of that trade (one MD used the term paraphenalia)

bagl

- following that segment, they did a brief bit on Reiki so I decided to watch - showed two people doing a couple of hand positions on the woman who was 'hosting' the segment

- one 'worker' described the energy as flowing like electricity (which of course it does not) and also said with Reiki, if one sprained an ankle, one would be up and jogging again in 10 minutes (now I have sprained an ankle and I know it does not go away in ten minutes under any circumstances) - so I am not sure to what sort of 'injury' he was referring'

- the other worker, a woman, kept steering her comments away from healing acute issues and stressed the 'preventative' value of Reiki in maintaining good health (with which I heartily agree)

- I noticed, too, how the expressions on their faces seemed a bit 'strained' when the other one was commenting

- anyhow, I think the first comment about the 'sprain' is exactly the sort of irresponsible 'advertising' that is used to draw folks into Reiki or other alternative modalities

- so, round and round we go

>:-}}


Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/18/2006 1:33 PM
ID# 91492
This is a reply to: 91483
Otoharo!

Holobon, I know only this, the CKR drawn in the opposite direction from how it was originally learned draws out where as normally it puts in energy. Perhaps drwing out is what would assist with a tumor. I never have tried it.

finaltiy

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/18/2006 5:22 PM
ID# 91494
This is a reply to: 91487
Hello holobon,

Yep, :-))

I recently finally bought the book after getting really tired of hearing people recommend it (I have real issues w/one of the authors :-)) Have read less than a quarter of it so far but seems that a lot of it is rehashed/rephrased mumbo jumbo, double speak. I did really go 'what the ?? (expletive deleted :-)) right off the bat when Petter said on the first page "Dependence is the first step toward love" I don't care what kind of love anyone is talking about, unless it is an unhealthy sort, dependence definitely is Not the first step towards it. :-))

Anyway, take it all with a grain of salt but do not swallow (whole at least :-))

hugs

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/19/2006 12:35 AM
ID# 91498
This is a reply to: 91490
Dear FK,
The more I know, the less I know? :)
I have been wondering if there is anything real in this world or is it all BS? Perhaps a more earthy way of saying, all is illusion..... BAGL. Excuse me, must have a case of the vapors!

peace & joy,
holobon

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/19/2006 12:52 AM
ID# 91499
This is a reply to: 91494
Hi Rebecca,
I also caught the statement that dependence "indicates the ability to love". Huh?
Another one:we are guided to the right teacher & if someone paid $10,000 for master training, they were "supposed" to pay it. Oh boy, I wont even start down that path!
ARRghhh!

peace & joy,
holobon

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/19/2006 12:59 AM
ID# 91500
This is a reply to: 91492
Dear Finality,
I believe that is what I heard when first training. :)

peace & joy,
holobon

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/19/2006 1:14 AM
ID# 91501
This is a reply to: 91499
Holobon,

Lots of 'new ageisms' in it. Oh well, guess I was supposed to pay 12.97 from Amazon for it.

bagl

;-))

hugs

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

another word for illusion

posted at 4/19/2006 8:08 AM
ID# 91503
This is a reply to: 91501
Dear Rebecca,
Recently dawned on me that illusion & BS are pretty much the same thing.
Not a deep insight perhaps but I waded through alot of deep BS to get there. :) ( talking in general, not lambasting the book)


peace & joy,
holobon

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/19/2006 9:09 AM
ID# 91504
This is a reply to: 91498
My Dearest Holobon,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- or, perhaps a case of the 'veils'???

>:-}}

- BS? Is that a more serious condition than plain olde bs??

bagl

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

re: another word for illusion

posted at 4/19/2006 9:52 AM
ID# 91507
This is a reply to: 91503
holobon,

know exactly what you mean.

so simple, like the jitterbug, it plumb eluded me.

bagl

can be said about so many things.


sort of like the saying 'don't sweat the small things, there are no big ones.'


its pretty much all bs isn't it. (working on my cynical side :-)) I think I'm just tired of the rhetoric. (generally speaking)


hugs

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

re: much obliged for the replies & another question re CKR

posted at 4/19/2006 3:01 PM
ID# 91513
This is a reply to: 91498
Otoharo!

In the old world of doing, that happens. In the world of being, a whole new world opens up. I think you were the one to stimulate me to discover being many years ago.

finality

re: Dainichi Nyorei

posted at 4/22/2006 9:29 AM
ID# 91541
This is a reply to: 91468

holobon said, inter alia,
>In the book The Spirit of Reiki it is written that because Dr Usui was human, "in principle" it should be possible
>for us to accomplish what he did but it would be difficult.

From descriptions of the healing that Usui did, what strikes me is the speed at which the healing occurred. Aside from that, I didn't notice anything that isn't accomplished these days. Comments, anyone?

Bruce