The Reiki Cafe 

Dear Steve,

Now that I pause to reflect on it, and having read randomly on bodhisattva teachings, I want to balance my earlier comments with an acknowledgment.

It is perhaps worth a try, to practice meditation as an intentional practice in itself, to rediscover the clarity of being, and explore the potential of just sitting.

So I will try this for some time, seeing if I can hold a visualization of one or more of the symbols for any length of clock time.

I am told the Buddha said something like, "don't take my word for it, try the practices for yourself, and if they work for you, fine, if not, try something else". But "try" in this context means to give it a fair chance.

Although I stand by my comments conceptually about meditation, I'm also aware of the child's dynamic of saying I "can't" do that. When I started doing chinups after a 20-year hiatus in exercise, my arms couldn't accomplish much, either. How is the mind any different?

So, this is intriguing, I will take it up in the spirit of experiment and exploration. Someone remind me to report back in a week or two?

I'm drawn to try the master symbol first. For Level Twos, of course, any one of the symbols may do, though I suspect the power symbol will be the easier place to start. For Level Ones, maybe a picture of Dr. Usui (or Hayashi, or Takata). That's if anyone else wants to try it.

OK, and thank you for igniting the debate, Steve! This will be fun.

Blessings,
Aronaya

Dear Aronaya,

Meditation is a hard discipline. I'm told that the restlessness is an anxiety of the Ego at possibly being killed. I'm not sure it's the case, though. What seems to make more sense to me is that the action of focusing and excluding extaneous thoughts is so unfamiliar that it makes us uncomfortable. And some days are better than others.

Hugs,
Roxy

Ms. Roxanne,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- for myself? Having some period of time during which I may free myself of some of the thoughts upon which I may suffer surely is worth the effort

>;-}}

- and, I would say, death ends Ego, not meditation

- for it requires some of Ego's gumption to help one stay put on one's gomden or zafu, at least at first (so, perhaps there is some irony there)

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Hi Aronaya,

Just came on to the Forum to post a thought or two and noticed your new thread. Yes, for sure, give it a go and see what happens. If nothing then that is fine.

I am not sure what your comments where about meditation now but I am going to the other thread in a minute and will have another look.

Yes, I take on board what you say about a child's dynamic of saying 'i can't'. I am not sure if the mind is different - I would think yes, but don't ask me to qualify that! I want to ponder that one - good point but intuitively I feel that there is a difference in the case of the mind. Are we not dealing with that thing that is essentially what we are? Our true selves? The real me? Which in some traditions is the Absolute, one-ness. An arm of course is prone to aging and bound by physicality and time -is the mind? Perhaps - will ponder further.

Can I just add one thing: if you are drawn to the Master symbol then this would seem to be the most appropriate for you to work with. I would suggest however that given that you seem to be acknowledging that you have not engaged in meditation very much in recent times, then the following strategy might be helpful:

Don't try to see or visualize the whole symbol in one go - and this applies even more so if anyone is having a go with the distant symbol - just take a part of it- the top part most probably and just meditate on that - forget the rest of the symbol. Later, work with another part of it. Eventually you can perhaps work with the whole. Of course with this symbol we are working with Japanese kanji - but it does relate to universal archetypes and it is as much a picture as it is a script in some senses and so there is the possibility that the non-Japanese mind can still access the depths of this symbolic form.

Many blessings and good luck!

Will be interested to hear how you get on.

Steve

I'm going to sit with the power symbols for a bit, after reading this thread, a positive feeling started somewhere in my chest.
Feels nice.
Cheers :O)

Hi Firekeeper/Roxyart,

I think I would tend to support Firekeeper on this issue of the ego really. While we are in physicality don't we need the ego to help us function in the world? Nothing exists without useful purpose and we can I would have thought learn much from the presence of our own ego.

There are texts and teachers out there that talk about the necessity of killing the ego or destroying it. I think perhaps it would as firekeeper suggests be better to acknowledge that only death kills the ego. Does even the achieving of the state of enlightenment kill the ego? Or just tame it and nullify it?

There was a book I seem to recall called 'Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism' that suggested that the ego loves spiritual practice. It will sit there feeling oh-so superior because you do meditation and thus it is obviously far more spiritually advanced than other people. Or you do Reiki and so you are much more linked up to the cosmos/god/the universe than anyone else. The ego loves spiritual practice and will use this as it uses everything to promote its own continued existence. Spiritual advancement in any form is simply the getting to the know the true nature of everything, including the self and thus the ego and so whilst the ego might perceive meditation as a threat to its existence, it is nothing of the sort really.

Having said that, I think the only way to overcome the ego is to love it and take it on board as a valuable part of who we are, where we are now. The ego needs taming I think rather than destroying. Anyway, that is my few thoughts on this issue.

Blessings,

Steve

Steve,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- as I am taught, Enlightenment is only likely to occur once one has successfully navigated the Bardo and 'achieved', for lack of a better term right now (as ego connotated as it is), Boddhisattvah-hood and ended one's cycle of death and rebirth

- so, would it not be the most rare individual who could gain enlightenment prior to the ending of a life (since having been reborn into that life means there is Karma yet to resolve)??

- an additional question would be: does a boddhisattvah who elects to be re-born to the service of all sentient beings have an Ego as I, a yet to be enlightened being, experience it?

>:-}}

- or, is a boddhisattvah's Ego qualitatively different?

- afterall, boddhisattvahood is not Buddhahood

- boddhisattvah Karma yet to resolve

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Dear Mr. Firekeeper,

Yes, Ego dies at death. I was suspicious of that reason for the discomfort meditating to begin with. And most certainly, the benefits of overcoming that discomfort are well worth it! I am pleased to say I have made progress in that respect.

Have a great day!

Blessings,
Roxy

buddho1 said on

>There was a book I seem to recall called 'Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism' that suggested that the ego loves spiritual practice. It will sit there feeling oh-so superior because you do meditation and thus it is obviously far more spiritually advanced than other people. Or you do Reiki and so you are much more linked up to the cosmos/god/the universe than anyone else. The ego loves spiritual practice and will use this as it uses everything to promote its own continued existence. [. . . .]

The book was written by Chogyam Trungpa. Who apparently used alcohol rather extensively (resulting in death by liver failure at age 47, according to Wikipedia) and about whom there were reports of sexual relations w/ various students. His lineage disciple Osel Tendzin was controversial for having unprotected sexual activity w/ students even when he knew he was HIV-positive. I liked their writings, but find it hard to reconcile the writings w/ the authors' lifestyles. Mysterious are the ways of the dharma. I guess.

Bruce

Dear Bruce,
Thanks for that information. I considered taking classes from a RM who studied for years under I believe this same person. She charged a bit too much for me though. Especially after reading about her teachers lifestyle of enjoying the alcohol. I suppose we all have our bad habits.
peace,
Prosperity

Dear Aronaya,

I have tried a number of meditations myself, the most shocking of which were a combination of Reiki, Wicca Magick and Zik'r - the Muslim practice of using one of the names of God as a Mantra.

I have always believed that clearing the mind comes before opening it up to new experiences. Take simple candle meditation for example. A few seances with only a candle opens the gate to more focused concentration.

May I suggest you look at symbols through the ages and their historical and cultural meanings? You may find then, that the gateway into the collective unconscious (where Jung believed all alchemy took place) opens by itself.

Many have been through the same gateway before; you will find a familiar path that is paved with a secret promise of immortality.

Try the Tibetan Master symbol. I found it is more like a mandala than the traditional one.

Live long and prosper.

Esin

Dear Steve,

I agree with you on the subject of the ego. Taking the definition of the ego as it goes in Psychology textbooks, how on earth could we survive without it? Would it not be like trying to stand without a skeleton?

I think the ego needs to be truthfully known. With all its weaknesses and strengths. After we acknowledge what we are, then we can move to change towards what we want to be.

In the end, our aim would presumably be to be the best we can be ("an' harming none") - not to not be at all.

When you say taming, I think "horse whisperer".

Then I would say the ego is a horse.

And that is the avatar I use in my own domain - a picture of a horse.

Live long and prosper.

Esin :-)

Fascinating question, have pondered that one from time to time.

I suspect there is an aspect of language creating the (appearance of) reality -- do we "have" an Ego? Did anyone have an ego before Freud (or was it earlier) gave it a name?

If an ego is the part that induces suffering in the Buddhist philosophy, then perhaps that is the sacrifice of the Bodhisattva, to submit to struggling lifetime after lifetime with the illusion of separateness, even though in one life s/he had the choice of entering completely into Nirvana. In sharing the struggle, the Bodhisattva is in harness, as it were, side by side will all other sentient beings who are struggling with their desires. The only difference being, the Bodhisattva made a clear and awakened choice.

Wow! Neat theory! That last paragraph I suddenly see being smashed by the kyosaku.

Blessings,
Aronaya

My dad, bless him, did all that work before me, compiling a library of sacred geometry and doing some compass & straight-edge work himself. So I will stand on his shoulders as far as symbolism goes. My project in this moment is much humbler.

Both Tibetan and Usui master symbols are fascinating mysteries; I've chosen to start with the Usui. Could easily expand to the other symbols if this practice yields benefits.

I have heard of Zik'r, though not by that name. I think the Sufi practices are awesome.

Blessings,
Aronaya

First night's work was pretty cool, but I'll save general description for a couple weeks from now. Keeping a log of it. Just wanted to offer encouragement for others to try it.

Appreciate the interest this thread had occasioned!

Blessings,
Aronaya

Otoharo!

According to Xaris, the ego was begun by those who initate life here as an experiment. (This is a decimal planet and one where experiments take place, such as the dinasaurs.) It is a function in the intellect, not a being or not separate from anything. Psychology came along and used this term for what we call the self. That muddied the waters abit.

finality

esin said on

>Try the Tibetan Master symbol. I found it is more like a mandala than the traditional one.

OTOH, it doesn't have linguistic significance like the traditional one.

Bruce

Hi All,

Going back to Firekeepers questions and having mused on these a bit: In relation to the question of whether or not it is a rare individual who can gain enlightenment prior to the ending of life, I would say that surely it is not rare, in as much as there is no other way to achieve this state. Surely, the state of non-physicality (between lives) is not conducive to the achieving of enlightenment as it is a state of awareness of the infinity of everything at the very least, if not the one-ness of everything. It seems that the the answer needs qualification. Rare - no, as there is no other way it would seem to me, but rare -
yes, in that so few seem to have yet achieved this state. Don't the great teachers often say that it is very simple to achieve the state of enlightenment - it is just a thought (or absence of thought) away?

Interesting questions you put forward in relation to Boddhisattva-hood and karma. Karma is I would have thought not something that a Boddhisattva is burdened by simply as this state of being a Boddhisattva is chosen for the benefit of others. They had the chance at becoming fully enlightened Buddhas and chose not to. My personal feeling is that there would be no karma -in spite of their existence within the physical realm, but possibly not the clear light of oneness manifesting as a moment by moment reality. I am not sure that it would be the case though that they are burdened by life time after life time of the illusion of separateness. Surely living in this state must inevitably give rise to attachment and thus karma as suffering tightens its grip once more. Surely there must be a strong/overpowering sense of non-duality to maintain the state of Boddhisattva-hood? Do we have any Boddhisattva's on this forum who could perhaps clarify things in this area???

hi Bruce, thanks for that on the authors of the book I mentioned. I was not aware of the information you have given here, and I guess it does make one pause for reflection on the teachings. I can however find no reason to jettison the value in the teachings that I find but yes, I guess it just goes to show that even those whom we might look up to as spiritual examples on our own journey have their lessons in life too and their own karma to contend with.

Can I ask what is Xaris?? Never heard of this....I suppose I should do a Google search...

Jag - hope you will get back to us along with Aronaya on your symbol meditation too. Fascinating stuff coming up on this thread...

Blessings,

Steve

"Do we have any Boddhisattva's on this forum who could perhaps clarify things in this area???"

(Chuckle) I asked a friend once -- he was a philosopher and Taoist scholar -- "do you think there are any immortals living among us?" His answer -- "how would we know?", i.e., how likely are they to reveal themselves?

On the other hand, could we all be Bodhisattvas, and simply have forgotten about it? (Those pesky vows, taken lifetimes ago -- always getting in the way of fun, they are!)

I know! --- it's just those of us on the Cafe who are Bodhisattva's, and maybe Mother Theresa and Bishop Tutu and the Dalai Lama. Aren't we a fine-feathered bunch!

Whew, glad we cleared that up.

Blessings,
Aronaya

Otoharo!

You asked who is Xaris. I have spoken of her for so many years I assumed people would know to whom I was referring.

In Conversations with God series, there is a term used to denote humans who have completed everything. They are called Highly Evolved Beings. or HEB's. The HEB's on earth are not natives of earth but came from other worlds. Among those who came 120,000 years ago, is the person, Xaris. I found her here in Longview back in 1994. She is channeled by a man, so her voice has the strange inflection of a woman using a man's voice box. Anyway, I invited her to one of my groups at that time, and one of the fellows asked her to come every month. So we worked that out. She came for several years, monthly. After I clsed my office and began working from home, I was offered the oportunty to go up to their home and meet with Xaris there. I did this for several years. The one who is my soul mate continued for a few more years. Today, Xaris is a constant companion to the one who is my soul mate. So I hear from her almost daily.

I have told my story so many times before. I, too, was one of these HEB's along with Xaris. But I wanted to experiment with this thing ego which earth humans have that we had never experience. My female part did not wnat any part of this. So we split. I am the masculine half of the energy of an HEB and subsequently, I lost immortality by my behavior. All of these experiences have been new to me. In this lifetime, I am having the chance of ending it all so we can restore ourself as one.

finality

Bruce,

Right on both counts about Trungpa and the one about his regent. Trungpa's widow has said that alcohol is poisonous only if one isn't aware of his/her attitude. [Even contemplating the mental gymnastics involved in reconciling that position with Trungpa's death from cirrhosis of the liver makes me dizzy.]

Trungpa was regarded as a "crazy wisdom" teacher and there are stil those who swear that his drinking didn't interfere with his "brilliant" teaching. I do, however, find some of his actions antithetical to what I seem to remember as harmlessness being a quality to be cultivated (admittedly not taught, as far as I am aware, by Trungpa.)

Perhaps it is that same (seeming) contradiction posed by Kali beheading a demon: illustrations show the demon's severed head looking at her with adoration, as in the beheading she has separated him from his illusions. ?

Bright blessings; hail Eris!
goldenisis

goldemisis

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- did Trungpa Rinpoche's penchant for ETOH hurt anyone else??

>:-}}

- and, as I recall, it is sugested in a koan of sorts: "If you see the Buddha, kill him"

bagl

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Tried to meditate on the power symbol, that was a bust and a total waste of time, namely because I didn't have the patience. Hmm, maybe I should practice meditation on patience?
Also found in the past that it's easier for me to meditate in a group, namely reiki circle that I once attended.
Kind of miss those group sessions...
As for ego, those who try to forgoe the ego are themselves egotistical in the extreme and therefore subject to pandering of the same ego, much like stroking a cat, it's all pleasent for a while, until the cats' had enough, turns around and takes a bite and a scratch; such is ego stroking.
It's there,
get over it.

jaguar,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- perhaps start with sitting quietly and being mindful of your breath for five minutes

>:-}}

- then walk in measured, slow, mindful steps around the room, clockwise, for five minutes staying focused on your breath

- then sit quietly again for five minutes as before

- do this cyle at least three times

- no conversations, no music, no TV

>:-}}

- right now I do not feel any of that other stuff will be of much use to you as a 'focus' and will only distract you from getting more comfortable with the basic practices

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

I'll also add that it's like exercise -- takes a while to build up the "muscles". You wouldn't expect to go from zero to, say 5 chinups in a couple days. That's why I gave myself a couple weeks to work on meditating with the master symbol, figuring it would take at least that long to see any noticeable difference in mental stability (especially with MY monkey mind!).

And, as far as such things go, aiming for a couple weeks would make the old masters laugh out loud, the ones who spent years in caves staring at the rock wall in front of them.

So, if you want to give it a fair chance, set some longer timeframe, like a couple months. Five minutes at a time, as firekeeper mentions. First thing in the morning, and/or last thing at night. Same as brushing teeth, just part of the routine.

If you or friends notice a benefit after the longer timeframe, then great. If not, then let it go and don't worry. I've spent long periods in my life NOT meditating, had other things to attend to during that time. Like I said before, meditation is not the goal itself, it's the awareness of Self that we're after -- or I am, anyway.

Blessings,
Aronaya