The Reiki Cafe 

Salutations.

A certain phrase in a recent thread got me to thinking: what precisely is meant by "spiritual" and "spirituality?"

A psychobiology prof of mine used to observe that in the frame of reference of his field, if one could not teach something to another successfully, then the first person had not truly learned it. [I knew I had been successful when one night I walked into my then-customary watering hole and the bartender greeted me with, "You're not the same woman who was here last night, but you're not a different woman either." But I digress...]

And so, I invite anyone so inclined to finish one or both of the following:

A spiritual person...

Spirituality is...

(BTW, I have no answer to the above myself...)

BOOM!
goldenisis

goldenisis,

/*\ Namaste :-}]

- it is the questions that matter, afterall

>:-}}

- but having gotten that out of the way, just to add something to the melange, spiritual might be said to be all that is not materialistic or attached to the various philosophies of materialism and kindred

>:-}}

- some would say spiritual will, a priori, include the magical (which then also takes us dangerously near any 'religion' that holds to entities without mortal bodies - saints, for example)

>:-}}

- but, a fine can of worms nonetheless for any fisher-of-men or fisher-of-women

bagl

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

A spiritual person breathes.

Spirituality is a noun made out of an adjective made out of a noun.

Can I have some haggis now?

Love and
Blessings,
Aronaya

aronaya,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- haggis is yours for the asking (or making or?)

- there are some decidedly 'un-spiritual' people that breathe

- for myself? I would not use breath and spirit as synonyms

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Otoharo!

Good delimma.

A spiritual person is one who lives by his/her concept of Divinty as much as possible (to that person).

Spirituality is the state of or the search for the Divine.

Best I can do now, at least.

finality

Firekeeper,

A closer study of the word "spirit" might lead one to find Aronaya's answer most apropos.

Etymologically yours,

BOOM!

goldenisis said on

>Firekeeper,
>
>A closer study of the word "spirit" might lead one to find Aronaya's answer most apropos.
>
>Etymologically yours,
>
>BOOM!

Hello, Goldenisis,

Like Latin spiritus, Greek pneuma, Hebrew ruach, Chinese qi, Japanese ki, Sanskrit prana? But whether such terms mean something like "spirit" depends on their context. (Quoting Joyce Carol Oates' book _On Boxing_, "Indeed, it might be said that 'context' is all.")

Bruce
Addendum: Literal translation of rei ki (rei = spirit, ki = ?) becomes interesting in that context.

goldenisis,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- if one wishes to remain in the mundane

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Bruce,

Actually, I was speaking only in terms of derivation. It was New Year's Eve and it seemed like a good idea at the time.

FK,

That's soooooo dualistic.

goldenisis

goldenisis,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- as I do not think I limited any options to only two, and especially two that would be 'opposites' (a key criterion for dualism), the label you have applied is well........

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

I don't get it! Missed the context of your reply...

Blessings,
Aronaya

"there are some decidedly 'un-spiritual' people that breathe"

What was I going to say that was so intelligent? I had it this morning while staring at the ceiling persuading myself I couldn't get out of bed.

I've always been uncomfortable with this word, "spiritual". It is so easy to slip into in-group-itis with it. It's difficult for us to define, yet we (including myself!), in thinking of ourselves as spiritual, can exclude those who offend us, challenge us, even mirror our shadows for us -- when they make us uncomfortable, by definition they are un-spiritual, because after all, WE are the spiritual ones, aren't we?

We can all see how that thinking pattern has caused death and destruction throughout history, including the present moment, but it is much harder to see how we ourselves may adopt those same thought patterns, and how the ripples from our thought patterns reach out across the world.

How can I say this without myself being condescending and superior? Because I wrestle with pride, fear and mean-spiritedness every day; the persistent remnants of my healing journey. If I had to give myself a label, I'd be far more comfortable with "sinner" than "spiritual". Even that is sort of a reverse snobbism. The words are traps.

OK, that's enough now. I'll go back to my cave where the master symbol is painted on the wall for blurry-eyed meditation. Please note the kyosaku hung outside the cave entrance -- if you would be so kind as to give me a robust whack on the head every time I try to step outside myself.

Blessings,
Aronaya

aronaya,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- one view is that etymology is a 'man-made' discipline (by its very nature an artifical and sometimes logical but self-limited system or 'universe')

>:-}}

- the same view might suggest that spirit, on at least one other hand, is not man-made nor is it materialistic nor is it logical and thus not self-limiting or constrained (as any circumscribed, contrived logical system must be)

- that we appear to allow Self to constrain Spirit is, of course, Karma in search of resolution

- hope this helps

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Otoharo!

Aronaya, I am just now getting the connotation of being a spiritual person! Saying it like that sounds like it's a done deal. The fact is, we only seek for this spirituality. We are somewhere on that road, but don't exactly know where we are on it nor how far we have yet to go to get there.

finality

Dear Aronaya,

I do understand what you mean about snobbery of saying "I'm spiritual". I also understand that people do judge in terms of their own spirituality.

I, however, have to note, that there are many people actively involved in the development of their spirit (whether we agree with their perspective or not). On the other hand, there are plenty of people who don't give a darn about their spirits, and are completely involved in the world of the material. I know I was at one time.

Hugs,
Roxy

Dear Goldenisis,

Spirituality? Don't we all have spirits? If I'm not mistaken the word spirit derives from a root that means "movement" or something similar.

Therefore, in my humble opinion, being spiritual does not and cannot differ from being human. You know - the sort of human that eats, excretes and is interested in reproduction (I think I missed out some basic survival instincts there).

Modern evolutionary psychology claims humans are born "bad" - that is, none of us start off doing something for nothing. But hey, the great surprise is, we can if we want to. Free Will goes both ways.

As does the spirit.

By the way, the bartender had a point - I read somewhere that an emperor (or empress) asked a sage to explain the immortal spirit.

He used the example of the candle and the flame that glows upon it. Is it the same as the one lit at first? Or does it differ as time passes?

So, tell us, why do you digress?

Live long etc...

Esin

esin said on

>Spirituality? Don't we all have spirits? If I'm not mistaken the word spirit derives from a root that means "movement" or something similar.

"Breath." (Latin, spiritus)

Bruce

goldenisis,

Hi.

Well, perhaps a different layer of existentialistic query. But, here goes:

Spirituality is the concern with all matters not corporeal. A spiritual person\entity is thus, in part, spirit and therefore also defined by his\her\its acts of spirituality. Of course, in order to be inclusive, a definition of spiritual would encompass that which is 'not of the light' as some are wont to say. As for the barkeep and the patron? Smacks a bit of temporal mechanics which, as everyone knows, is a.....

And, I hope this offering does more for someone else than it does for me.

lol

Cheers,

RC

Firekeeper,

Duality, plurality...after the initial split, you've already done it regardless of how many bits and pieces.

BOOM!
goldenisis

goldenisis,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- It seems to me I also did not specifically exclude singularity

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Dear Esin,

As Bruce has said, the root of spirit is breathe. I don't take that to mean that because we breath we have spirit. Instead, I think it refers to spirit being something as ephemeral or unnoticed as a breath, yet it is that that keeps us alive.

Blessings,
Roxy

Darling Goldenisis,

My mind is still spinning from what your bartender said, so I can't even begin to think about your question.

Love,
Roxy

Namaste,
Someone sent me an Aramaic prayer that is the original Our Father which in it's original form starts "Oh breathing life, your name shines everywhere" translated "Our Father who art in Heaven". So I agree that spirit has to do with breath. Spirit is invisible like air. Without breath we would be dead.
peace,
Prosperity

I had a second thought about breath and spirituality. I think we can all agree that meditation is an act of spirituality. Often breath is used as a focus in meditation. So perhaps there is some relation there. Just a thought.

Blessings,
Roxy

prosperity,

Hi.

If you are suggesting that breath = spirit, then are you also saying that when we die and our breathing ceases spirit ceases as well?

:)

Cheers,

RC