The Reiki Cafe 

Dear Bruce,
I didn't know grapes had thorns. Maybe the Bible isn't made to be taken literally. And if it is, in some instances, then how would you explain the Cain and Abel
story. Was one adopted?
Peace,
Prosperity

prosperity said on

>Dear Bruce,
> I didn't know grapes had thorns. Maybe the Bible isn't made to be taken literally. And if it is, in some instances, then how would you explain the Cain and Abel
>story. Was one adopted?
>Peace,
>Prosperity

Huh? Who said that grapes had thorns???

And -- going to the original point of my providing the quote from the gospel according to Matthew -- what sort of results do you get with the reiki symbols?

Bruce

Bruce,

Hi,

Let one's conscience and heart be one's guides. Neither conscience nor heart will come out of a book.

Cheers,

RC

Dear Bruce,
It doesn't matter what results I get. Although sometimes life threatening situations have gotten worse to the point of death. Some relaxation benefits as with most meditative and or healing practices. In some Reiki practices I've seen many things. Some people have gotten better yet have had several people working on them. Not necessarily all at once but no instantaneous healings like you see on the X-tian stations. So, is it the results that make it right? I haven't used the symbols much lately but use other energy techniques. Was turned off by seemingly to me unscrupulous RM's or narrow minded ones. It seems to me that you just are one of those narrow minded, judgemental, wanting to argue types.
peace,
Prosperity

prosperity said on

>Dear Bruce,
> It doesn't matter what results I get. Although sometimes life threatening situations have gotten worse to the point of death. Some relaxation benefits as with most meditative and or healing practices. In some Reiki practices I've seen many things. Some people have gotten better yet have had several people working on them. Not necessarily all at once but no instantaneous healings like you see on the X-tian stations. So, is it the results that make it right? I haven't used the symbols much lately but use other energy techniques. Was turned off by seemingly to me unscrupulous RM's or narrow minded ones. It seems to me that you just are one of those narrow minded, judgemental, wanting to argue types.
>peace,
>Prosperity

Hello, Prosperity,

If you believe that "by their fruits shall ye know them," then yes the results are an indication of whether the symbols are demonic, which is the question you asked. So I don't understand why you say your results don't matter. Of course, the most useful comparison is between similar conditions, treated and untreated. (E.g., observing that pancreatic cancer patients who receive chemotherapy die, with a median survival duration of 5.6 months after diagnosis, isn't all that meaningful by itself. Comparing that result with what happens to pancreatic cancer patients who don't receive chemotherapy is a much more useful observation.)

And you still haven't explained where you got the idea that anybody asserted that grapes have thorns.

So it seems to me that you are just one of those fuzzy-headed, illogical, misreading, wanting to argue types.

Oh, and as for some RMs being unscrupulous or narrow-minded? Certainly, it's happened. Now, what would you say about Christian priests who've been raping children?

Peace to you too.

Bruce

Dearest Bruce,
"Do men gather grapes of thorns.." Was your post. I know of my counselor who tells me he knows alot of pastors who mess with their neices so it isn't just a priestly thing. Rape happens in all segments of society at all levels. The Bible is written in code. You ignored my question about Cain and Abel. Just because something works or has a seemingly good outcome or result does not necessarily mean it's the right thing to do. Your posting is rude and defensive due to you can't explain about Cain and Abel so unless you can then you must be the fuzzy- headed one.
Peace,
Prosperity

prosperity said on

>Dearest Bruce,
> "Do men gather grapes of thorns.." Was your post. I know of my counselor who tells me he knows alot of pastors who mess with their neices so it isn't just a priestly thing. Rape happens in all segments of society at all levels. The Bible is written in code. You ignored my question about Cain and Abel. Just because something works or has a seemingly good outcome or result does not necessarily mean it's the right thing to do. Your posting is rude and defensive due to you can't explain about Cain and Abel so unless you can then you must be the fuzzy- headed one.
>Peace,
>Prosperity

"Dear" Prosperity,

You started the name-calling. Now you claim that I'm rude and defensive. See Matthew 7:5.

In the quote from Matthew 7:16, the question of whether men gather grapes of thorns is rhetorical. The verse doesn't assert that grapes have thorns -- that's just your misreading. Rather, the verse recognizes the fact that grapes don't have thorns -- hence, the next 2 verses explain that "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Just as grapes don't come from thorns, good fruit doesn't come from evil trees; therefore, "Ye shall know them by their fruits." That really shouldn't be so hard to understand.

About your question of Cain and Abel: Huh? Why do you ask whether one of them was adopted? Give me some background to understand the sense behind your question, just as I gave you an explanation in the preceding paragraph.

And yes, rape happens in many segments of society. The qualities you attributed to some RMs are found in many segements of society -- so what did that have to do with your questioning about whether the reiki symbols are demonic?

Thanks.

Bruce

"It doesn't matter what results I get. Although sometimes life threatening situations have gotten worse to the point of death."

Dear Prosperity,

Not trying to drawn you into the fight circle I assure on my honor. But if you could expound on this a bit?

Namamste,
Michael

Dear Michael,
To invest in results or to try to figure out what is a good outcome depends on a person's consciousness so very subjective area and don't really want to go there. As for Bruce he is an example of why I am skeptical of Reiki mindset that I'm seeing in alot of people at this point.
Peace,
Prosperity

Dear Prosperity,

I guess I was looking for a more anecdotal response but I do agree about the pitfalls of trying to invest in, manage outcome.

When one endevours in that arena one could be disfranchising the Divine that we believe to be behind (or in front of) Reiki and engaging the one's Ego.

namaste,
Michael

arati said on

>Dear Prosperity,
>
> I guess I was looking for a more anecdotal response but I do agree about the pitfalls of trying to invest in, manage outcome.
>
> When one endevours in that arena one could be disfranchising the Divine that we believe to be behind (or in front of) Reiki and engaging the one's Ego.
>
>
>namaste,
>Michael

Trying to force a particular outcome while doing treatment is one thing, and it's not what I was talking about at all. Recognizing what outcome corresponded to what treatment is something else completely. If results don't matter, then why bother to do reiki or any energy treatment at all?

As for Prosperity's question of whether reiki symbols are somehow demonic -- well, she hasn't given any reason for believing that they are, and she refuses to acknowledge the apostle Matthew's statement about the "fruits" being a sign of what is or isn't evil. She asserts the Bible is written in code, but doesn't deign to explain how the above-referenced statement in the gospel according to Matthew is coded. She also misread the verse about whether men gather grapes of thorns, thinking it meant that grapes have thorns. She started name-calling, then acted as if she were the aggrieved party when she got back the sort of statements she dished out. And that makes her skeptical? Okay.

Bruce

It makes me wonder at what point a person becomes a troll.

Rock On!
Roxy

To Bruce,
If the shoe fits, wear it. I don't have to explain anything to you. Cain and Abel were brothers, from the same parents?? by their fruit you shall know them. hellooo One was good, one wasn't. Doesn't take a brain surgeon but I can see you're mentally challenged. so sorry,
Peace,
Prosperity

prosperity said on

>To Bruce,
> If the shoe fits, wear it. I don't have to explain anything to you. Cain and Abel were brothers, from the same parents?? by their fruit you shall know them. hellooo One was good, one wasn't. Doesn't take a brain surgeon but I can see you're mentally challenged. so sorry,
>Peace,
>Prosperity

To Prosperity,

You should probably check your Bible again. One was good? What evidence is there for that proposition? Abel found favor with God . . . but then so did Cain, even after the fratricide. Remember the mark of Cain? Hellooo. (And remember the doctrine of original sin? Hellooo.)

BTW, a friend of mine who's a philosophy prof. and a rabbi says the Biblical Hebrew rendition of the story probably doesn't support a conclusion that Cain had intent to murder. Not knowing Biblical Hebrew, I'll defer to his judgment on that.

Bruce

roxyart said on

>It makes me wonder at what point a person becomes a troll.
>
>Rock On!
>Roxy

Hi, Roxy!

Well, yeah. Now, retreating from my own excursion into trolldom, I'll try hard not to come back into this thread. "The spirit is willing, but . . . ."

Hope all's well w/ you.

Bruce

Good to see you, Bruce,

It's hard to just walk away when you were so obviously provoked. I've had to halt myself, too. Hope the rest of your day is great!

Hugs,
Roxy

Otoharo!

To the question about Cain and Abel, if I rememb er accurately, they were both sons of the same father but also sons of different mothers.

finality

Ouch! And I thought we weren't talking religion here???!!!

Can somebody deep breathe here, please....

I'm so slow.....I just figured it out here....you guys & gals are enjoying yourselves....and learning at the same time! Whoosh! That takes a lot of guts, for cryin' out loud!!!!!
I love you for your courage!!!! You Go, Girl, Guy, kick ass, baby!!!!!!

"Trying to force a particular outcome while doing treatment is one thing, and it's not what I was talking about at all. Recognizing what outcome corresponded to what treatment is something else completely. If results don't matter, then why bother to do reiki or any energy treatment at all?"

Dear Bruce,

The first paragraph of your post packed alot in a short space.

First comes to mind is that you seemed to horn in on a dialog between Prosperity and I. It's like you reacted to some "gang-up " mentality that I'm not present with. At least not from my den. On occasion some one comes to the Reiki Cafe looking for an idealogical fight. Nonetheless your voice is most welcome.

Secondly, you seemed to fly out with the seemly force and assumption that the true universe revolves around the beliefs that Bruce has to share. That can work but the Holy See beat you to it long ago. They have monopolized that approach long ago to great success. You might get a job with them but good luck trying to take over their market share on your own.

As far as swapping biblical quotes goes I'm sure that you could "blow my doors off". I concede to your acumen on the topic. I'm feeling that you do not realize that these scriptures that you that you rest your hat on; rely on for foundation have been been edited, redacted, manipulated for political and power means by men since day one. Or at least since Jesus left to say.

The Word of God that you seem to hang your hat on is the word of men. Men of religious power who have perverted the word of god and Jesus for hundreds of years. Poor Jesus, to see what has become after he left. How his words and intent were perverted by men to seek power in his name. With great success too.

Perhaps we can agree on one thing: I welcome his return to if that be the case.

Symbols: symbols are "training wheels" to help one focus on spritual/energetic intent. Good example:
;'The swastika was for long a sacred symbol. The Nazis saw it's esoteric power and hijacked it.

Not that you might care what I think but I am interested and open minded about what your has apostle Matthew to say. for instance. And Jesus for sure.

But if you have been vesting yourself in the what you believe to be verbatim words from their mouths....well the record of history is out there. Take a look.

Namaste ( I honor the light and soul that dwells within you)

Arati

Roxy,

You might want to rethink that troll dis-ing if you ever want to go camping or such!

\Arati

Hello, Arati,

You said,
"First comes to mind is that you seemed to horn in on a dialog between Prosperity and I."

Uh, you do realize Prosperity's comment was posted on this bulletin board, right? It wasn't a private dialogue through the personal messaging feature of the Cafe. Prosperity used that particular post to take a gratuitous and public shot at me. I commented on it. In the parlance of one profession, her comment about me opened the door to my responding to it.

You also said,
"Secondly, you seemed to fly out with the seemly force and assumption that the true universe revolves around the beliefs that Bruce has to share."

I don't think so. But based on experience, I _do_ say that people who start to talk about demons being involved in reiki seem to have the sort of worldview that you accuse me of having.

And you further said,
"The Word of God that you seem to hang your hat on is the word of men. Men of religious power who have perverted the word of god and Jesus for hundreds of years. Poor Jesus, to see what has become after he left. How his words and intent were perverted by men to seek power in his name. With great success too."

That's the Word of God to which Prosperity alluded in asking whether reiki symbols are demonic. I responded with quotes from the same source that she used. Perhaps she's doing what you've just accused others of doing.

But hey, perhaps you can explain why she alluded to one verse while ignoring the ones that came right after it. If someone is going to invoke one source (one verse in Matthew), then don't you think it's fair to invoke the very same source (the next verses in Matthew) in response?

And you also said,
"symbols are "training wheels" to help one focus on spritual/energetic intent."

I agree with that.

And I'm still wondering, as I stated earlier: If results don't matter, then why bother to do reiki or any energy treatment at all?

Bruce

arati said on

>"Trying to force a particular outcome while doing treatment is one thing, and it's not what I was talking about at all. Recognizing what outcome corresponded to what treatment is something else completely. If results don't matter, then why bother to do reiki or any energy treatment at all?"
>
>
>Dear Bruce,
>
> The first paragraph of your post packed alot in a short space.
>
> First comes to mind is that you seemed to horn in on a dialog between Prosperity and I. It's like you reacted to some "gang-up " mentality that I'm not present with. At least not from my den. On occasion some one comes to the Reiki Cafe looking for an idealogical fight. Nonetheless your voice is most welcome.
>
> Secondly, you seemed to fly out with the seemly force and assumption that the true universe revolves around the beliefs that Bruce has to share. That can work but the Holy See beat you to it long ago. They have monopolized that approach long ago to great success. You might get a job with them but good luck trying to take over their market share on your own.
>
> As far as swapping biblical quotes goes I'm sure that you could "blow my doors off". I concede to your acumen on the topic. I'm feeling that you do not realize that these scriptures that you that you rest your hat on; rely on for foundation have been been edited, redacted, manipulated for political and power means by men since day one. Or at least since Jesus left to say.
>
> The Word of God that you seem to hang your hat on is the word of men. Men of religious power who have perverted the word of god and Jesus for hundreds of years. Poor Jesus, to see what has become after he left. How his words and intent were perverted by men to seek power in his name. With great success too.
>
> Perhaps we can agree on one thing: I welcome his return to if that be the case.
>
> Symbols: symbols are "training wheels" to help one focus on spritual/energetic intent. Good example:
>;'The swastika was for long a sacred symbol. The Nazis saw it's esoteric power and hijacked it.
>
> Not that you might care what I think but I am interested and open minded about what your has apostle Matthew to say. for instance. And Jesus for sure.
>
> But if you have been vesting yourself in the what you believe to be verbatim words from their mouths....well the record of history is out there. Take a look.
>
>
>Namaste ( I honor the light and soul that dwells within you)
>
>
>Arati

Dear Arati,
I do appreciate your comments as I never professed to be "Christian" nor was I the one who originally started quoting from scripture. Some people project their own behavior on others which seema to be the case here. It felt very tribal so glad to know you are not into the gang mentality.
thank you again,
Peace,
prosperity

peace indeed.....we can all agree to disagree and still remain human beings....my mama used to say that.....peace.