The Reiki Cafe 

Hi everybody,
I would be very grateful for some advice.
I am Reiki II and have been for five years - now looking to take my Reiki III/Masters, and have been contacting other Masters locally to get a `feel` of what is on offer, and what seems right.
However, I am a little confused about the information I am receiving.
My Reiki I and II are Usui, first traditionally, and then whilst still Usui based, with an independant practitioner.
I am aware of lots of new information coming from Japan, particularly that from Frank A. Petter, but am not sure where the Seichem and Tera Mai fit in.
From the dim distant past I seem to remember hearing that Tera Mai was trademarked in some way, and that that means that there are lots of rules and regs - is this so? I have read that Seichem adds the bits which it is suggested were left out when Takata taught Reiki ... what do you all think. I am simplifying this for the sake of brevity -
I would be so pleased to learn your views -
Love and light,
philanty

philanty,

Namaste.

Tera Mai is trademarked by Milner, I believe, and is similar to Karuna which is trademarked by Wm Rand, I believe - and Seichm is someone elses, I guess. :-}}

These, in my experience, are not of reiki.

And yes to "officially'" be attuned to these one must pay, as I understand it - much as the reiki Alliance suggests that about Usui Shiki.

- although lots of people presume to pass around distance attunements in all these practices - I have no idea
who, of any of these has received hands on attunements in these practices.

I do not favor disatnce attunements for a variety of reasons.

My suggestion is to find an Usui Master and go that route to start with.

Depending on how open you are at your attunement and how experienced the Teacher is, the need for these other "symbol" based practices may well be superfluous for you.

Hope this helps,

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

firekeeper

Firekeeper -

Namaste

Thank you for your thoughts - much appreciated.
Reiki to me, has always seemed gentle, simple, and extremely powerful, and I must admit to having some doubts about changing what seems to work extremely well.

However, keeping an open mind, I just thought it worth asking what others` experiences might be.

Taking the next step is something I have been wanting to do for some time, and I just want to make sure it is the right step.

Thanks again,

Love and light,

Philanty

Hello Firekeeper, and Philanty,

As for distance attunements, I personally have not experienced them, but I have spoken with some that have. They, for the most part, seem to have felt it and experienced it just as much as if they where there in person. These attunements where done via another message board I am on, and all the feedback there on that was quite positive, and the attunements many.

All the best,
Dina

philanty,

Namaste.

It was almost three years before I did the r-3 - and only after 21\2 years of group reiki shares twice permont with other reiki 2 and 3 people.

My Teacher\Master summation was splendid. Traditional with some other stuff added in that both the Teacher and I were interested in doing.

Enjoy your master work when the teacher appears.

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

firekeeper

Greetings philanty;

metta.

Tera Mai Reiki/Seichim were developed by Kathleen Milner. She had taken one of the American developed Raku Kai Reiki's, which was laready significantly modified from the Takata practices.

Seichim, loosely refers to the art developed by Patrick Ziegler, from his experience in the great pyramid, sufi training and reiki training under Barbara Weber Ray.

Kathleen Milner had taken Seichim from August Starr (a Seichim student of Phoenix Summerfield) in 1991 (if my memory serves). Kathleen describes that she began to feel the reiki she was taught was incomplete and asked
father/mother/god for the answers.

Shortly after that she and Marci Miller began channeling symbols from an afro-haired being in an orange robe from the "inner planes" who they believed to be the Legendary Indian guru Sai Baba.

Kathleen (and or Marci) as the channelled reported that she received three symbols and was told that Mrs. Takata received the attunements incompletely. The orange robed afro spirit guy from the inner planes gave her new attunements to go with the new symbols. Other students of Kathleen's began to channel other symbols. All of these were
incorporated with the new material from the orange robed afro haired spirit guy and viola, Tera Mai Reiki. Later it was discovered by Kathleen, that the oranged robed afro haired spirit from the inner planes was not Sai Baba, but a "higher being" from the "inner planes".

Coincidentally, in the evolution of all this, this system of
attunements and symbols was taught via others, to Glenn Derrick and then to William Rand. At this point it was loosely called "Sai Baba Reiki". Rand describes his version of all this, Karuna Reiki (also TM) on his site at .

Rand stated that he contacted the Sai Baba organization and was told that they knew nothing of Sai Baba Reiki and could not legally use the "Sai Baba" name. He reported that he was guided to come up with a new attunement process and call this "Karuna Reiki".

My recollection is also that Rand had written that when top
clairvoyants looked at the symbols it was "determined" that they came directly from "god". The Karuna Reiki (TM) system was trademarked by Mr. Rand.

So in its history, Kathleen Milner's early work became Sai Baba Reiki by some and Karuna Reiki(TM) by others. It would seem that we have a system that was channeled by Sai Baba, except it wasn't Sai Baba, but a "higher being", who gave symbols and attunements, that turned out in "reality" to be from "god", which was made into a system that was then trademarked. Trademark god's works. Go Figure. And I thought the church had the trademark on god's works. Well at least the inquisitors did, and oy vey the cost for trademark infringement!

There is more information regarding all this on the Karuna Ki website at

Vinny

Namaste Philanty,

I have been attuned to Reiki and then attuned separately to Seichim....I consider them to be two separate systems although you often see them linked.

They are both beautiful and work well together, but I don't think that pure Usui Reiki has anything missing or needs any additions, it is wonderful just as it is.

I would just go with what feels right for you.

Hope this helps
Blessings
Helen.

Dina -
Namaste

Thank you for your input. I wasn`t actually thinking of having `remote` attunements anyway, I am just exploring which Masters live within reach - I would personally far prefer the personal touch, as it were, but I am sure that for people who cannot get to a Master, maybe the remote attunements are better than none.

But I appreciate your reply -

Love and light

philanty

Vinny -

Namaste

Thank you for your detailed reply - much appreciated.

Fascinating stuff, I must admit - long live pure reiki is how I feel at the moment - the more I find out, the more complicated it seems to become - and from the Reiki that I do at present, I certainly have no feelings of it being `incomplete`, in fact I am constantly gobsmacked by how amazing it is!!

However, to each their own I guess and I feel it is important to learn as much as possible enroute ... thank youfor the website info. too, I shall explore ...

Love and light,

philanty

Helen -

Namaste -

I was very interested to learn that you speak from experience of both Reiki and Seichem, and that you find Reiki complete in itself, and Seichem as a different
system.

One of the Masters I have spoken to who lives within reach, offers both Reiki and Seichem attunements.

I gather that Seichem is an addition to reiki in the sense that you cannot have Seichem unless you first have reiki - is that right?

What I wouldn`t want, is anything that in any way `muddies` the reiki which is just magnificent - is it possible to keep them separate? Or, if you have to have Reiki in order to take Seichem - does the one influence the other?

Thank you for taking the time to reply,

Love and light,

philanty

Dina,

Namaste.

Yes, some say it is a fine experiennce. I suspect that in those cases the "teacher" is someone of above average skill in Mindful Intent for such work -

My issue with distance attunements is exactly that - there is a special Mindful Intent and focus needed to do it right.

So, ok, now my axe is a little sharper and I will go quietly and split some firewood. :-}}

/*\

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

firekeeper

Philanty

Namaste!

I am a Reiki practitioner of the Tera Mai style. I think its very interesting that you are inquiring about this style of Reiki.

It is my understanding, from my attunements & study materials, that Tera Mai Reiki is particular type of energy healing system. It is said that Tera Mai Reiki's healing energies come from the element of Earth.

It is also said that Tera Mai Seichem is another specific type of energy healing system, different from Tera Mai Reiki. It's said that Tera Mai Seichem's healing energies come from the elements of Fire, Water, & Air/Akasha. The 2 healing energy systems are linked because the Tera Mai Reiki provides the foundation for all the healing energies.
So, if you are attuned to Tera Mai Seichem you would also be attuned to Tera Mai Reiki. The Seichem is an extension of the Reiki.

There may be other systems of Seichem/Seichim out there, however, I am only speaking in terms of what I have learned in Tera Mai.

Kathleen Milner has a website about the Tera Mai System of Natural Healing, as it is trademarked. The address is:

I hope this helps!

Reiki and many Blessings to you & yours!

Judah

Firekeeper,

Namaste,

/*\

L&L
Dina

Hi Philanty,

Namaste :)

I'll try and answer this as best I can, but I am no expert :))

Patrick Ziegler received a spontaneous initiation to SKHM in a pyramid in Egypt. This came to be known as Seichim.
He spent some time in Egypt researching what he had experienced and then whilst in Yemen found that the healing energy began to manifest itself, whenever he was sick He then spent a couple of years in Nepal working with what he had learned and the energy.

When he returned to the states, Patrick wanted to expand his knowledge of healing and came to study Reiki. He found that Reiki energy was similar to Seichim. He went on to become a Reiki master.

Seichim then developed on from there....there are many different styles. This is a very brief history, but if you want to know more the book All Love, by Diane Ruth Shewmaker is excellent and contains a foreward from Patrick Ziegler.

Okay...If you choose to receive a seichim attunement...when working with the energy, you can intend that either pure Reiki be channelled through you or Seichim or if you wish, both. Seichim will not influence the Reiki, they work in harmony together, but if you wish for just Reiki, then intent ensures that only Reiki is channelled and vice versa.

If you choose to receive an attunement to Seichim, you will notice a difference in the 'feel' of the energy compared to Reiki.

They are both beautiful healing energies, that work beautifully together or independantly.

I hope this is of some help to you, there are a couple of Seichim Masters who participate here sometimes...they will probably be able to add a lot more knowledge than I can :)

Love,light and Blessings
Helen.

Judah -

Namaste:)

Thank you for your explanations - the information you have given me helps a lot in my understanding of the different systems -

Love and light,

philanty

Helen,

Namaste :)

Many thanks for your clear explanations - I now think I understand or at least have a much clearer picture on which to base my choices.

I shall look for the book you mention too - it sounds interesting.

Love and light,

philanty

Seichem is the spelling of Seichim used by Kathleen Milner. She incorporated both Seichim and Reiki into her Tera Mai system. She has trademarked it, and insisted her teachers only teach Tera Mai.

Given that, I beleive many in this tradition mark out what they do by teaching Reiki and Seichem, not Tera Mai. So a couple of questions to the teacher will settle your mind on that one-are you learning info based on Kathleen Milner, or on the broader group called Seichim?

Seichim begins with Patrick Zeigler, a group he was giving Reiki attunements to, and a channeler.

Having studied with one of that original group (they call it Setim, by the way) I can tell you Seichim is well and truly grounded in reiki.

Is it different? can anything Divine be truly bits and pieces? certainly the intent is different-more creative, not as caught up in rules. But you can do everything you do in seichim with reiki.Subjective words like" feels different" don;t help much-we all feel things differently. they work, and that should be enough.

I teach both-and love both. I have also learned Tera Mai reiki and Seichem and find many of Milner's techniques to be useful.

Here's the point-find a teacher you are comfortable with, and learn all you can. you are no better or worse off depending on what tradition you choose to follow! Enjoy it-use it-

Different traditions even teach differently. Seichim as I teach it does not need previous reiki experience. yet, the first levels we teach are the reiki symbols! other traditions teach reik and then seichim-or seichem, if that is the tradition they learned.

Faith

philanty said on 12/15/2000 12:36 PM

>Helen -
>
>Namaste -
>
>I was very interested to learn that you speak from experience of both Reiki and Seichem, and that you find Reiki complete in itself, and Seichem as a different
>system.
>
>One of the Masters I have spoken to who lives within reach, offers both Reiki and Seichem attunements.
>
>I gather that Seichem is an addition to reiki in the sense that you cannot have Seichem unless you first have reiki - is that right?
>
>What I wouldn`t want, is anything that in any way `muddies` the reiki which is just magnificent - is it possible to keep them separate? Or, if you have to have Reiki in order to take Seichem - does the one influence the other?
>
>Thank you for taking the time to reply,
>
>Love and light,
>
>philanty
>
>

Faith,

/*\ Namaste.

Is it not imporant to consider that one may be trained in and attuned to Seichm\Tera Mai
without previous reiki trainng and that attunements in the tera mai and seichm practices do not necessarily include traditional reiki symbols?

And here I refer strictly to the hands-on variety of attunement practices. Distance stuff is another ball of wax.

These matters, to me, give credence to the experience of some that tera mai and seichm are "different" aspects of the the Energy Source than is reiki.

:-}}

- too, any such practice as reiki, tera mai, seichm, shamanism, etc offers a wealth of opportunity for creativity in the Work. One simply has to be willing to open up and learn and share. :-}}

Reiki, Tera Mai, Seichm all around :-}}

All Blessings,

firekeeper

Well. except for one thing. Both Patrick Zeigler and Kathleen Milner took Reiki attunements before developing these other systems.

Had they not had reiki would they be able to pass attunements?

And since we cannot answer that one, and cannot remove their reiki and find out if the systems would have developed anyway, we cannot know for sure that these things are not part and parcel-reiki.

both the Seichim system I teach and Tera Mai do use the reiki symbols so I am not sure what system you are referring to as not using reiki symbols.

Chicken and egg theory here, i realize. And aspects (facets in seichim) and wholeness (reiki) really are two sides of the same coin, are they not?

Faith

firekeeper said on 12/18/2000 12:30 PM

>Faith,
>
>/*\ Namaste.
>
>Is it not imporant to consider that one may be trained in and attuned to Seichm\Tera Mai
>without previous reiki trainng and that attunements in the tera mai and seichm practices do not necessarily include traditional reiki symbols?
>
>And here I refer strictly to the hands-on variety of attunement practices. Distance stuff is another ball of wax.
>
>These matters, to me, give credence to the experience of some that tera mai and seichm are "different" aspects of the the Energy Source than is reiki.
>
>:-}}
>
>- too, any such practice as reiki, tera mai, seichm, shamanism, etc offers a wealth of opportunity for creativity in the Work. One simply has to be willing to open up and learn and share. :-}}
>
>Reiki, Tera Mai, Seichm all around :-}}
>
>All Blessings,
>
>firekeeper
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Faith,

Namaste,

As I asked the original question, this is just a quick note to thank you for your input - it has been amazing how much information has been so generously given - but there again, with reiki - perhaps not so amazing.

Anyway, thank you to everybody who has replied on this, I have so much information and also leads to follow, that I shall be some time deciding what to do ... there again, to enjoy the journey is maybe what it is all about ...

Love and light, and blessings to everybody in the group, and every happiness over the festive season.

Philanty.

Faith,

/*\ Namaste.

One does not need reiki attunements in order to be trained or receive attunemets in these other practices - at least that is a common practice these days with all the distance attunements being floated around. :-}}

- Just as one does not need attunements in Tera Mai or Seichm to get reiki attuned.

However, it is generally accepted that one must already have the training and attunements at the master level in order to pass attunements to others. Again, there is a growing population of distance-only attuned practitioners who then pass attunements distantly, and -on -and -on without, in theory, ever doing any hands-on practice.

It is not really chicken - or - egg. Usui Sensei, as far as anyone knows, did not receive attunements from any other "person".

- So, it is also likely that there are others who are able to open to the energy and the thought forms of the symbols and be attuned without other human intervention. :-}}

It is likely that training and attunement in one practice will facilitate attunement in others - though this is a matter of individual conditioning and experience.

Thank you. I value your discussion.

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper

Ok, then why bother with Reiki at all, or the more newly developed systems? Why think any human can "give" you energy?

We can all sit around and wait for the symbols and energy to come to us?

With Tera Mai, it is explicit in Kathleen's materials that you are recieving reiki even if you take the Seichem or higher Tera Mai levels-reiki is the ground, the beginning.

Patrick Zeigler did say a couple of years ago he did occasionally give straight reiki attunements-that he does carry the energy. Of course, it is not what he prefers and he is happiest teaching SKHM, at least that is what comes across in his posts.

All in all, every experience we have matters-every Reiki master, Seichim master, Tera Mai master, and SKHM facilitator, will show differences in energy levels, methods, etc.

The system matters. The backbone of how to use energy;good teachers help us so very much.

this from a Takata student-responding to someone else about individual energies vs reiki...yes I have permission to post this...

‘"You have a name to place to a spiritual discipline that you've never been a stranger to..."
>> That was the experience of most people with Reiki, who have participated with intent, and compassion in concern
for others. So it depends on how you understand the word "Reiki" and Usui System as to whether or not the name matters. It depends on whether you understand the vehicle as something to treasure as well as where it takes you, whether or not it will be available to those who need to follow. The "boat" of Reiki practice is something that is helpful for people who have yet even to see the water, much less cross it. ‘

We all feel that "coming home" with reiki...but as it differs from person to person, seem to feel the need to individualize or expand it. Yet it is always there, working with you at your own pace...and never needing those enhancements.And can feel like it was always you (it is-in the best sense) so that you can get the idea you didn;t need reiki, just your own energy.

Belief systems differ. Approaches to energy differ,and that is a good thing.Everyone does change with reiki;as most other systems are newer, only time will tell.I will say the most powerful healings I ever had, were from Reiki people. Not one claiming a higher system ever healed me faster.

Taking reiki out or saying it doesn;t matter, when it is the beginning for so many healers, seems disrespectful to me. We need to honor our teachers-(sound familiar) and understand it does not make us less special, we do not need to claim something different to be perfect as we are.

We can all go out and look for enlightenment, as Usui did, or accept that some people have a wonderful "boat" to carry us on, without the need to struggle for twenty years.It is such a gift.....

Faith

firekeeper said on 12/19/2000 9:39 AM

>Faith,
>
>/*\ Namaste.
>
>One does not need reiki attunements in order to be trained or receive attunemets in these other practices - at least that is a common practice these days with all the distance attunements being floated around. :-}}
>
>- Just as one does not need attunements in Tera Mai or Seichm to get reiki attuned.
>
>However, it is generally accepted that one must already have the training and attunements at the master level in order to pass attunements to others. Again, there is a growing population of distance-only attuned practitioners who then pass attunements distantly, and -on -and -on without, in theory, ever doing any hands-on practice.
>
>It is not really chicken - or - egg. Usui Sensei, as far as anyone knows, did not receive attunements from any other "person".
>
>- So, it is also likely that there are others who are able to open to the energy and the thought forms of the symbols and be attuned without other human intervention. :-}}
>
>It is likely that training and attunement in one practice will facilitate attunement in others - though this is a matter of individual conditioning and experience.
>
>Thank you. I value your discussion.
>
>Reiki all around,
>
>all blessings,
>
>Firekeeper
>
>
>
>
>

Faith,

/*\ Namaste. :-}}

It is said that the Higher Self travels on foot - not a high horse, magic carpet, etc.

The energy is there to be had - an attunemnt only "works" if one accepts it.

A system is fine - it (and its proponents) must, however, not be slave masters - and at the same time not slaves.

To be too sure of the nature of Source is to fall deeper into Illusion.

A Teacher once suggested that Source is neither rigid nor chaotic -

Sat Nam.

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper