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Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 3:57 PM
ID# 71133
Dear Friends

Native Totems teach us many lessons if we choose
to listen..
One I am learning now is this:

The Butterfly is a symbol of transformation...

Butterfly teaches us that there are 4 parts of change: caterpiller, larve, crystallis, butterfly....
one can see where they are in this cycle.

The Dragonfly is a symbol of Illusion..

Dragonfly creats illusions,
so one does not see what is there in front of them.

So in your own personal life, are you the
Butterfly or Dragonfly?

Are you in Transformation or are you in a
Illusion of Transformation..

Bear Smiles..

Peace,
Joe

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 4:29 PM
ID# 71145
This is a reply to: 71133
What if you become both.

Your only chance of transformation is to experience the illusion.

Therefore the butterfly changing/transforming/metamorphosis is: the dragonfly experiencing.

Just a thaught
Thanks always MedicineBear for your insightfull messages

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 5:01 PM
ID# 71148
This is a reply to: 71145
Hiya..
I have been taught that..
One can be either butterfly or dragonfly,
being both at the same time is not possible.

Either you are changing or not.
Illusion covers the truth..

So if the dragonfly appears to you,
be assured that you are not seeing something you should be..

If you are seeing an illusion there is no truth
to what you are seeing...

The whole point of Illusion is to fool one into
believing what they are seeing is real,
when it is just a trick of the eye...

Bear Smiles

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 6:04 PM
ID# 71157
This is a reply to: 71133
Hey Joe,

Put me down for transforming butterfly or flutterby as the case may be.

Donna

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 6:25 PM
ID# 71161
This is a reply to: 71148
I also think one cannot be both at once.
But do you think that one has to be the dragonfly at one point?
In order to feel and recognise illusion? And then move on. Into the butterfly?
Maybe that is what Shaun is saying?

I think it can be very hard to tell the difference, sometimes only when you are through it.

Lioness smiles at Bear :-)

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 6:27 PM
ID# 71162
This is a reply to: 71157
Hi Donna,

May I ask you where you think you are on the cycle?

If you look it like this, it may make it easier
to talk about.

Think of a compass.
East is 1st position... egg: seed or beginning

South is 2nd position... larva: "the early doings"

West is 3rd position... coocoon: "place of transformation"

North is 4th Position... Butterfly: Are you walking with Spirit hand in hand, the fruition... & remember
"matter follows vision & Spirit"

So what position are you currently in?
How do you get to the next position?
Then what is your next cycle going to be about?
Yes it just starts over again..

Bear Smiles..
Peace,
Joe


re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 6:39 PM
ID# 71164
This is a reply to: 71161
Lioness Dear,
Yes, the Dragonfly is always flying into and out of our lives..
The real trick is too develop the insite to tell the difference..
or
have Bear friends who do!
:-)

But will one listen..
That is a better question???

Funny you bring this up:
My lesson exactly as you know!
LOL
Lioness my butt...Tigress more like it!!!!!
ROFLMAO

Lesson in progress:
Can a Bear save a friend from the DragonFly!
Does a Warrior EVER walk away from a friend!

Tough answers...truly tough answers!

Bear is not smilin' tonight...

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 7:06 PM
ID# 71168
This is a reply to: 71162
I am in the coocoon cycle. I still have much to learn and apply in my life.
I will get there by doing the above and speaking, sharing and living my truths.

I have to later start over again??? eeuuuuuu

Donna

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 9:40 PM
ID# 71176
This is a reply to: 71164
Oh Joe-Bear,

I feel for you, you know I do :-(
But I have every confidence in the introspection and core of strength of the Bear.

Tigress... mmmm

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/4/2004 10:17 PM
ID# 71179
This is a reply to: 71133

It seems to me that I/we cycle through the life stages of the butterfly more than once, spiraling higher or deeper , depending on how one views the spiritual path.
Peace,
Feather

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/5/2004 1:42 AM
ID# 71188
This is a reply to: 71176
Nats Dear...

I know the answers, I have for some time..

They just are leaving this real BAD taste
in my mouth...
Nothing seems to be able to remove it..
Acceptance or not it just stinks!

Sad, not even chocolate can help..
:-0

GrumpyBear

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/5/2004 2:43 PM
ID# 71212
This is a reply to: 71133
Hello and greetings Joe,

I am afraid I must respectfully disagree with you about Dragonfly. I have been taught that Dragonfly is not the creator of illusions but the breaker of illusions. The dragonfly is one of my totems and when it appears to me I take time to consider things in my life that I'm not seeing clearly.

This has been my own experience with dragonfly and I know that everyone's experience is different. But I did a quick search of "Dragonfly Medicine" online and found pretty much the same arguement. That dragonfly is the breaker of illusions and not the creator.

But as I've been taught, our totems are very personal and are in our lives to help us. What Dragonfly teaches me perhaps is totally different from what it teaches you or anyone else. And I'm sure you wouldn't want those with dragonfly as a totem to think that there is only a negative trait. That they do not see what is there in front of them.

The bear is also very significant in my life. I remember many years ago when I first started on this path hearing a speakersay that the bear totem only caused turmoil. They were quick to violent anger and were thieves. Obviously this person didn't have bear in their lives. But that comment left some in the group feeling bad because they had been drawn to the bear and now feared this connection.

But I, for one, am very happy and blessed to have dragonfly in my life and I wouldn't want anyone to think it's a bad thing.

I would suggest to anyone interested to google "Dragonfly Medicine" and see what you come up with.

All best,

Randy

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/5/2004 4:13 PM
ID# 71216
This is a reply to: 71133

Dear Joe,
Namaste,
what happens if one of these animals is your Shadow animal? Does it directly mean that you need to learn from Transformation or illusion?

just curious,
always,
LadyC

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/5/2004 5:58 PM
ID# 71224
This is a reply to: 71212

Hi, Randy,
Looks to me like you and MedicineBear are saying the same thing. Sounds like the Dragonfly alerts you to illusion either way.
Peace,
Feather

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/5/2004 6:09 PM
ID# 71225
This is a reply to: 71161

Thanx Nats!!

I did not mean that someone could be two things at once cause thats another forum all together :)

But simply that you cannot imagine what darkness looks like until light is shon into it.

We are always changing, even if someone thinks they are not...you will change regardless, therefore you are always going to be the butterfly.

If there was such thing as illusion, that would mean some of life is a lie.

It would mean that between two people one would be the truth and one would be stuck in the illusion.

The larvae does not respect the butterfly for his freedom of flight.
The butterfly cares little for the foraging on ones belly.
Therefore neither are in an illusion but simply living their truth.

With love and light
shaun

re: Owl

posted at 5/10/2004 4:48 PM
ID# 71472
This is a reply to: 71212
Hi Randy..
Like all things a dragonfly has many sides..
Some we see, some an illusion.
(I like that!)
LOL
BTW
I never said Dragonflys were negative..
They are, what they are..
I will stand by my statement that Dragongfly can
"create" illusions.
They also.. "Signal" & "Break" illusions.
Other things as well..

I use The Dragonfly all the time..
He is not a permenate Totem but he hangs
around enough for us to be good friends.

Your Dragonfly teaches you what lesson you need
to learn... just as mine teaches me my
lessons..

Lets look at
"Owl"
(Easy all you Owl Folks!)
:-))
Some will say Owl is dark, ie. "Night Eagle"
Some say Owl is deception...
Some say Owl is enlightenment...

I say this:
Owl ..
Gives one "eyes to see deception."
Is the Totem that by showing up, alerts you
"to a deception."
(either someone deceiving You or You deceiving You)
And
The one who gives you the power to "break the deception."
and
Owl has one or two more side I know about..
:-0

Another thing I have learned is.
If I use either Dragonfly or Owl,
I will be able to see & break an illusion/deception.
Combine both powers and add in
Introspection from Bear...
That is a powerful Group of Totem!

Totems have many sides...
Just like ourselves.

Bear Smiles

Peace,
Joe

re: Shadow Totems

posted at 5/10/2004 5:09 PM
ID# 71475
This is a reply to: 71216
Hi Hun,
Sorry I did not get back sooner,
been crazy up here!

Shadow Totems..
Yum..
I love this..

Shadow Totems attach to Fear.
They "Chase" you, "feeding" off your fears..
So if a Shadow Totem is showing up, it is
feeding off your fear..

They are hard to get rid of..
Why?
one must embrace "WHY" they are afraid..
Not an easy thing to do.

So a Shadow Totem, feeding on your fears,
is VERY different from a
Personal Totem or a Messanger Totem,
giving us a message, teaching us a lesson,
even if it is a "Bad" lesson.

Shadow Totems will stay untill there is no
fear to feed on...
Messanger Totems give message then leave.
Personal Totems give message, then back off,
guiding us, so one can "Do."

Hope this helps..

Bear Sends Smiles

Peace,
Joe

re: Butterfly or Dragonfly

posted at 5/10/2004 5:24 PM
ID# 71478
This is a reply to: 71179
Hi Feather,
My teachings definately agree that all healing lessons
can be "Linked" to the "Butterfly cycle"
as one lesson ends, another begins..
but..
all personal lessons, projects
and relationships follow the same cycle...
All "life" does..

BTW
What about the people who just sit and spin,
or the ones who fly off, never to find ground again?
There cycles end..
Or do they?

Bear Smiles

Peace,
Joe

re: Owl-ness

posted at 5/10/2004 5:30 PM
ID# 71479
This is a reply to: 71472
Joe,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- one aspect of Owl-ness is perception of very subtle facets and movement of energy

- Owl can be helpful in detecting "darker" influences rather than being a dark influence (there are owls that hunt in daylight, afterall.

>:-}}

- and a wet Bear never forages at night

bagl

Reiki all around,

all blesisngs,

Firekeeper

re: Owl

posted at 5/11/2004 10:35 AM
ID# 71493
This is a reply to: 71472

Hi Joe,

Glad to see you understand the virtues of Dragonfly! :c)

I agree with everything you've said, even the part where you didn't say they were negative. But what you did do was only give two choices. The butterfly with it's transformation or the dragonfly as a "Symbol of illusion" with it's illusion of transformation. Which would you rather be? To folks that may be new to this of course they would choose beautiful butterfly. Just didn't sit right with me for some reason the way you "set up" the question. There's so much more.

And you're right again, dragonfly as every totem, has many different sides. But I think all totems have the ability to create illusions. It really depends on how we work with them. Sometimes these illusions are teaching tools I think. Sometimes they help teach us to create illusions ourselves. (Maybe that's how come I seem to always pass for a straight man even though I'm gay? lol)

As the butterfly has various stages, so too the dragonfly. The adult lays the eggs on or in a plant near the water. The young nymph hatches and falls into the water where it will spend from one to three years where it molts many times. Then in the heat of the day it will emerge where it's old skin dries and hardens and the beautiful dragonfly will emerge as an adult. The big difference I see here is that the butterfly is very showey in its progression where the dragonfly sort of works behind the scenes and has a much shorter life span to get things done. Because it only has the summer to mate and lay eggs before it dies in the winter.

When one looks at the metomorphsis of both there is clearly no illusion in transformation. Both are transformed.

And while sitting here pondering both, I can personally see more illusion in butterfly. It's so easy to get caught up in its beauty that you might not pay attention to other things.

So thanks Joe! These are my thoughts and ramblings. There are no set rules. Just as we are all indiviual beings we all will experience things in a different way. Your post has prompted me to look deeper and I realize that it's just dragonfly's way of getting my attention. I've been looking for them for days, but still a bit too early here in central PA.

In spiritual matters I feel we can only share our experiences. Sharing experiences is like putting down stepping stones on a path. One may follow those stepping stones if they choose, but I've always found it more fun to explore the forest and stay off the path. lol. And I hope others do as well!

All best brother bear,

Randy