The Reiki Cafe 

In an effort to stimulate discussion and because of a few recent posts about good and evil, I thought a discussion of Satan and his role might be an interesting topic.

I recently saw a program about angels on the History channel. During a portion of this program they discussed the angel Satan, and that there is a great deal of disparity between the original Judaic writings on Satan and current Christian thought. After this program, my curiosity aroused, (and because of another personal reason) I did a little more research into this topic.

The point was that Satan, as he was originally described, was not an adversary of God but that he was, with Gods knowledge and intent, an adversary of man. A chance for us to choose between good and evil, right and wrong, a testament to free will and the opportunity to grow. Now this is something which I have always, at least since I was about 7, suspected was true. It never really made sense to me that if God was actually omnipotent, and the angels were created by and beholden to God (without free will), how Satan could be his enemy. And simply reading Job tells us he directed Satan by laying down the rules for Job’s temptation.

Now since I don’t know a whole lot about Judaism, I did some research on this subject. (I will post a couple of these links on Resources for anyone interested.) Satan is our temptations, our lessons to overcome. He’s not a fallen angel but an angel with a nasty job, one necessary for our growth.

This then naturally led me to Islam, what did they believe? That Satan is neither an agent of God or a fallen angel (maybe, this was contradicted in a couple of places). Satan was a jinn which, while suffering a delayed punishment for failing to prostrate before Adam, uses his free will to suggest evil to man. They believe that Satan doesn’t actually create evil, but suggests it to man to turn him away from Gods path. This includes putting thoughts into man’s head (thus the Satanic verses).

Now, I’m just going to stay with these three major religions, as to get into the different pagan religions (and how Christianity used these to change the image of Satan and vilify pagan deities) would take even longer. But the idea of a tempter, through various means, is a common thread throughout many different belief systems.

What do I believe? Well, although I am still in the process of digesting all of this information, I tend to agree with Judaic thought on this. But I would like to hear other opinions, and the reasons behind them.

Blessings, light, and understanding,
DesertWolf

Well I do know that the gnostics believed Satan was not evil but an opponent of God (or so i've heard in conversation). Why they believed this i don't know. and I know this is part of why they were considered heretical by the church.

Hi Desertwolf

Wow syncronisity (LOL)
I am at the moment reading a book which touch's on all of the different titles given. Like Archangel Michael, Zadok, Satan etc, They were heriditary titles (according to this authour) and to understand a lot of the code withing the christain bible, you do need really to know what the code is and how it works.

The basic premis is that Jesus was a memeber of the Essenes, In Judaic succession to the role of the David (King) there was a continuation of eygptian and sumerian tradition of liniage.

The book is "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" by Laurence Gardner. Well worth a read for the inturpritation and possible way it really was. It does sit right with me. It makes sense and it does go to show how things can get taken to extremes, when it is not really understood why we do them.

Namaste

Rob

Hello Desertwolf, this subject is always of interest esp as a fear to overcome. When I was 10yrs old and living in Cyprus, we often visited a beautiful monastery. One of the old monks had been tortured during the war and as a result was hidiously deformed and unable to speak or hear. There was a giant picture in this monastery of tortured souls in hell surrounded by demons and the grim reaper. For years the combined images of the old monk and the picture tortured me, I was terrified that if I did anything wrong then thats how I would end up.
So that was how a seed was planted to form a belief which lasted many years. When we question our fears/beliefs the universe provides answers.
I now believe that life is a series of continuous challenges and that satan is really the opponent to provide doubt, confusion etc as part of these challenges. The result being what we choose to believe and how be deal with our challenges. If satan has a demomic form it has been created by mans negativity [we are incredibly creative beings with our thoughts and words, for 'good or bad'] in the mass collective consciouness.
I have read somewhere something similar to what you say in your 3rd paragraph, that god sent an archangel to create adversay, opportunity for man to grow. I will e-mail it for you if I can find it.
Finaly I watched a movie recently and a line shot out to me... 'the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing man that he does not exist.'

Best wishes
Denise.

Desertwolf,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- I do not know who or what satan is or was or will be

>:-}}

- but whatever satan is, it surely gets mistreated -

>:-}}

- as you mention, pagan deities were and still are referred to as the minions of satan; various members of one or another of the major religions make, in order to grind some axe or another, the same claims about some members of the other religions; and-on-and-on

- for myself? the Shadow that is part of each of us is sufficient challenge for any lifetime that we need not project our own darkest "junk" onto any other 'entity' (whether corporeal or non-corporel)

- why blame some 'satan' when all one has to do is look in the closet, so to speak.

>:-}}

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper

Greetings,

Interesting topic. Satanism has always been a curiosity for me yet not enough of one to get me to join a sect. If one does join and become a satanist, can they ever be a reiki master?

thanks,
Prosperity

It gets a lot more complicated in Gnostic thought. Gnostics believe that world was created by a demiurge (lesser god) who was imperfect (but still contained the divine spark), which is why the world was created imperfectly (although transmitting the divine spark to all living things) to begin with. Now I think (and I could be mistaken here) that Satan is an opponent to the demiurge (god) and not the Godhead. Keep in mind Gnostics believe that the God of the old testament is this demiurge and not the true Godhead. Gnossis is achieved by experiential knowledge of the divine spark within us, transcending both the demiurge and Satan. so to speak.

I have to admit that I am a believer of these stories as myth and parable, and am not a proponent of organized religion of any sort (for myself that is). I simply thought that the Judaic Satan made more sense in that context - and would like to add that, in my mind, this is the archetype of our own fears and temptations.

Otoharo!

Desertwolf, add to your studies, the Urantia Book. The story is in narrative form and very easy to ferret out.

My spiritual growth group met this issue several years ago. I was propounding the Urantia perspective. Our teacher, Xaris, being channeled through R, listened to us then turned to me and said, it was essential for us to have the ability for free choice, to choose God or to choose other than God, or separation. Choosing going back home, or choosing staying separated. Satan's role became the convenient way for this choice to be always before us.

It was the reading of a book, (I think it was the first of Gregg Braden's books) in which the author described a vision of seeing Satan with tears in his eyes. This vision opened the author's eyes as a prelude to his being able to write the book.

As it turned out, this discussion served to open our eyes as well. Once we make a decicion that going home is our journey, then Satan has no part in our awarenesses. We no longer need Satan. The choice to continue in separation, keeps Satan active. And each and every soul born into the physical has this individual choice to make, and will continue living the physical path, until the choice to go home (and its result of ceasing Satan) is made.

In my personal experience, it was ego who played Satan's role in my life. Even though I thought I was choosing to go home, my ego was able to countermand that choice. I have shared with you my struggle with ego. It is always ego which brings Satan into our daily perceptions. It was by choosing to go with ego that lost me my immortality.

finality

Prosperity,

This is a common misconception of Satanism. Satanists do not actually worship Satan. In fact, they don't even necessarily believe in such a creature. It's more of a figurehead. They believe in what he stands for: do what you want! From what I've read, they're pretty much atheists who've created a religion of Men. And that religion is: I look out for myself, respect each man's rules, or pay that man's consequences.

It's a little harsh for my tastes, but they have a lot clearer idea of what they believe than most people!

-Elaine

prosperity,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- well, I might simply offer that Reiki is to help others heal themselves (or heal ourselves)

- the energy work in satanism is for many intentions but few are likely to be 'healing' (at least in the conventional sense)

>;-}}

- can one get reiki training and then join a satanic sect?

- certainly. Joining a satanic sect does not make one a satanist, after all. Only doing satanic energy work does that

>:-}}

- can one become a reiki master if one has done 'satanic' energy work?? Sure. Thugh in such a case even I might expect some pretty significant 'post-attunement' cleansing (maybe well past those mythical 21 days)

bagl

- can one be a Reiki Master and a practicing satanist at the same time? I am not sure why one would but if there is anyone out there who has personal experience maybe we could hear from them)

>:-}}

- one view is that all energy is part of Existence and, as such, Mindfulness and Intention will affect the forms we access or perpetuate

>:-}}

reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper

Another interpretation of this phenomen: applying a concrete name to a nonexistent phenomen actually creates it. Thus, Satan is a manmade entity.

That is, Darkness is only the absence of Light. It does not exist as a reality, it is not real, it is only the lack of light. It is non-dual: Light and absence of Light. We experience darkness when we do not remember the Light, or when we refuse to look at it, or do not know how to break through lower vibrations, etc. Thus we have to name it. A thoughtform created by humanity's Fall. The Fall is forgetting One/All Is God, and going into Duality.

Anyhow........that's some things I have read. It is a brain twister.

hello, going back to manifesting our thoughts and beliefs [good or bad] I would just like to add this...
Many years ago I used an ouija board [in my ignorance I thought I would be able to communicate with my much loved and missed Grandad]. The glass moved around but nothing really happened. Anyway weird and scary things began to happen around the house eg, we kept finding the bathroom door locked from the inside. Finding a grotesque demonic face appear ingrained in the wood of one of my drawing boards etc.
After weeks of living in fear I heard of a lady who did rescue work. We met and she cleared the house of this low vibrational energy that I had brought in then fed with my fears. This lovely lady explained to me all about energy and told me never to speak or think about what had been in my house, then starved of energy it could not grow again, similar to if you did not water a plant it would wilt and die. This worked a treat, I was not bothered again and a lesson was learnt.
So this is where I conclude that Satan and all lower energies could be created by our thoughts, fears and beliefs. Like the battle of 'the two wolfs', a toltec tale of the love and the shadow which exists in each of us, the one that wins is the one we choose to feed.

Best wishes
Denise.

My understanding is that traditional old-school satanism does believe deities exist and may even pray to these deities. But the idea is that these deities are what the satanist wishes to become. It's not so much worship as it is trying to learn from these deities so that they can ascend to the same level.

As for what firekeeper and prosperity were discussing. Each satanist is an individual and while the path may be considered negative and on the dark side of things. Any particular practitioner practices as they wish. Which means that one could be a perfectly nice individual. They may have the option of doing bad but are just as easily able to do good. So really it's an individual thing and depends on the specific practitioners involved. Some would not even have an interest in Reiki while others may use it for themselves, while another may think that helping others is a way to ascend to godhood and take that path.

To me the reality is that Reiki practitioners are as varied a group as anyone else. There are those of us who are sweet kind and wonderful and those of us who are ignorant , mean-natured and vengeful. This really goes for any broad group of individuals spiritual or not. There are good folks and bad folks. I don't think the attunement distinguishes.

Cathars believed that Satan was the one who created the earth and trapped us in the physical body. They also believe that Satan is the one who said "Worship no other god but me" and created the books of Enoch and Moses, which is why the Cathars rejected the old testament as coming from Satan and were thus deemed heretics.

Hi Desertwolf
That could of course be Pauline Christian propaganda (LOL).

The Cathars believed that the world was split along lines of matter and spirit, good and evil. They believed in purifying themselves, clean living, chastity, poverty and equality of the sexes.
The Cathars are thought to have been a pretty pure offshoot of the original Gnostics. They believed the God of the Old Testament was a blind and evil god, responsible for creating the world of matter.

Central to the Cathar creed is the concept of Duality, the opposition of the material world to that of the spirit. For the masses, this translated into a battle between good (Light or God) and evil (Darkness or Satan). However, if we return to the source of one of the many strands of which the Cathar faith is woven, we see in early Zoroastrianism, the root of Manichaeism, a less encrusted form of dualism. According to Zoroaster, the Supreme Being created twin forces of reality and unreality. Reality and unreality are seen as essential elements from which our world is created, not polarizations of good and evil. Reality is represented by objective meaning. Unreality is human subjectivity, which only becomes negative when we are enmeshed and blinded by it.

(Both of the above paragraphs have been taken from websites)

The Church of Rome did persecute them, just like they later persecuted the Knights Templers and protestants, and come to that any one else who didn't agree with them.

It is said by some that the Cathars have links back to the grail bloodline. Mary Magdalene is said to have gone to the area during her later years.
Unfortunatly, the writings of the cathars have been destroyed along with a lot of other gnostic writings and also the writings of the Celtic church. These writing may just have given us a truer view of Jesus.
And yes I would agree with your satan statement (LOL)

Namaste

Rob

desertwolf,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- history as remote as the 12th and 13th centuries when the cathars apparently had flourished for some time is often sketchy at best, but...........

- there are any number of sources that suggest the Cathars were largely of Gnostic tradition (having also, apparently, incorporatd aspects of Sufism and Zoroastrianism into their creeds), fair-minded, and quite spiritual and had a fairly orthodox view of creation and the duality of good and evil nd apparently the Catholic Church (the Pope Innocent) in the 13th century sent troops to have them 'exterminated'.

- I have not read that they believed Satan created the earth

- the idea they believed satan created the earth and trapped us in the physical body rings more of the things said of the Cathars by the Inquistion during the years they were persecuted and killed.

reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper

Otoharo!

Denise, until your last paragraph, what you shared is similar to my early experiences and training. I was trained as the lady was trained who came to clear your home.

However, I differ that we create satan. We do create thought forms all the time, ones that augment our energy, as well as those that syphon off our energies. These we may dub as Satan etc. However there was a being, not an angel, but a being who lives in a physical body but did not evolve as regular humans evolve.

You can not yet see them, but there are worlds around us made of substance that our eyes will eventually be able to see. Astronomers will likely find them in your lifetime. The beings who live on these worlds likewise have bodies different from ours and are invisible to us when they come here to visit. One of these worlds near by is called Satania. The beings there were created to be administrators of physical worlds. One comes routinely to check up on the welfare of the Celestial population which we do not see.

Despite the fact the beings on those world had been created to be involved in our spiritual journey, there was one who formed a rebellion against this plan setting themselves up as Gods. That rebellion spread to the world called Satania. Thus that being who came to visit us periodically, began spreading this idea of rebelling against the spiritual plan and accepting that person as our God. Our ancesters who lived at that time, had the choice of being on one side or the other. A huge uproar followed, Van was our leader for God's spiritual plan, against others who followed the rebellion. The being we eventually dubbed Satan was that being who made these routine visits to our world. When Jesus was here, he evicted that one we called Satan.

So no one here actually sees him. The legend that grew up around Satan became a useful tool for our legitimate Celestial administrators as the symbol for separation from God.

Human thought forms which are dense enough that they can not escape the astral plane, reside there. they are not beings but only thought forms. Coll whom I trained under, had as his thrust to clear out all these dense thought forms as well as to bring home all those confused souls who did not know they are dead and hang around in the astral plane. This level of healing continues still. It will be clear by the big shift.

finality

Otoharo!

Dave, I am not so sure about your last paragraph. I know an individual who was a reiki I along with me and a lot of others here. She was a wonderful, spiritual seeking person, but she began to use reiki as a tool to ensure that her son's team should win the current tournament. She had a most devasting back up of the energy. Ones who saw her energy interpreted these happenings for her. After she changed her intent back, reiki also continued its healing. From this one small incident that our group benefitted from, I doubt very much that reiki would lend itself to an intent contrary to reiki's intent, so to speak.

finality
ps. I do know there is no judgment., It is not up to us to judge another.

Otoharo!

Rob, If you have read what I have just written about the origin of Satan, I would like to pick up on that to add this. The ones invisible to humans who resided on earth and were visited periodically by the one from Satania, had other names. But the names that come down to us from antiquity, are Jehovah and his leutenant. It was Jehovah who claimed himself to be God of earth and had a huge following. He and his leutenant brought a hundred with them to be the government. Of these, Van who was leader of the ten whose job was religion refused to accept Jehovah in this role. So the bible includes the writings handed down as originated by Jehovah self proclaimed god of earth. Van's assisstant was called Abadner (I can't remember exaactly how to spell it) That assistant was a human who had been emplanted with a finer energy and thus his body was more than human. Both Van and his assitant lead the forces against Jehovah when war occurred on earth. (I guess the first world war). Eventually Jehovah's bunch were removed from earth, but only after every human had a chance to choose which side to be on.

Because Van and his group settled in the Himalayas, I have wondered whether they became the ancesters of the Tebetans.

finality

My reference to Cathars come from my handy dandy Gnostic Bible, which includes many texts from many different places all of which contribute to Gnostic thought. According to the editors of this particular book, Cathars seem to have come from the Bogomils, which were a neomanichean sect and quite popular and widespread.

The discussion of Satan takes place in "The Gospel of the Secret Supper". Which not only states that Satan created the physical earth and Adam and Eve, but was also the serpent that tempted them.

As the Cathars became more widespread and popular, the Catholic Church became much more interested in putting a stop to them - as they had with so many others.

Blessings,
desertwolf

Ahhh , I never stated that I didn't think there would be consequence for one attempting negative action. What I was saying or trying to say was that I believe an attunement will take to anyone. This does not mean they can then turn Reiki towards "evil" or "impure" ends. Only that they too can utilize Reiki energy. Now theoretically Reiki can be used in such a manner. But if so (and I can't say for sure since I haven't tried) I would expect there to be reprecussions. Are there not , in the end, reprecussions in other forms of energy work? Think also on those that use Reiki for money or develope ego from being a channel, or use it to sexually prey on others (such as touching inappropriately and assuring someone it is okay and part of Reiki or saying Reiki works best in the nude so they can get cheap glances or unsuspecting individuals, etc.)if Reiki did not work for these people in any fashion then they couldn't really use it in that way? But I think we've all heard horror stories of supposed gurus, molestation etc. I'm a firm believer that they're gonna get what's coming to them. What they put out comes back like a bladed boomerang. But they can still utilize Reiki as an energy. The inherent problem is that often these type think any energetic reprecussions are worth it and as their own life worsens they only keep doing these things to try and improve it.

I've used ouija boards several times in my life with no problems such as what you describe, both alone and with others. While i'm sure that was a frightening experience I would think that it's your perception of what the ouija board is that allowed this situation to occur.

Hi Finality
This is the Urantia writings isn't it?.

Some of my recent readings have been so mind blowing in their Doh of course that is the way it is, that I must admit to no longer trusting anything written down, unless I can actually see it myself, or it resonates correctly with me.

I wonder if the war that Van waged on (Or rather waged led his forces against)jehovah is actually a little more subtle than the great war and actually is more connected with the hearts and mind of people? There is always conflict there, or so it seems.

Namaste

Rob

Desertwolf,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- would you please post the title of this to which you refer including the authors and or editors at the Resources Board please??

- I would like to peruse a copy (I assume I may obtain one somewhere}

- what the Cathars state are their beliefs and what others attribute to them may be rather different, after all

>:-}}

Thanks,

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper

finality,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- what obviously has not been removed earth is the art of propaganda

>:-}}

- Jehovah's and 'his bunch' do appear to be alive and well, so to speak.

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper