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Flustered Parent

posted at 1/19/2005 10:43 PM
ID# 80780
Healing community,

My son is enthralled with a popular trading card game, called Magic the Gathering. I am learning the game but am very new. At his daycare, the two boys who live there, are very good, very advanced ... and they play every day. I asked Sam how he does, and he tells me that the two boys are experienced and he always loses. He also said that playing them, he learns the game.

But I started observing he was sad when I asked him. As he now is teaching me the game, he takes INCREDIBLE care that he not wipe me out, or devastate me, as he could. "I don't want you to learn that way."

I observed Sam, 9, play a high school player, very experienced, in a tournament. There were no holds barred.

I don't understand this.

I am 49 and this is a new world, a new competitive dymanic. I was an honorable mention All-State high school basketball player. I believe you don't brutalize players who don't have your experience. I play down, point out what they are doing well, offer tips if they are open to that, extend encouragement, and never, when playing a newbie or one with less experience, pull out all the stops.

I have been on the other side of this athletic brutality as a lousy baseball player, and never forget how it felt. I know I cannot stop life's inevitable hurts for my little guy ... but I feel protective. Locker room cruelty has almost had me keep him from most competitive sport.

A question for any one who might know.

Is this win at all costs and forget about the feelings of your opponent part of trading cards, or Magic the Gathering? Or is it a part of culture?

I made a huge faux pas by teasingly asking one of the boys why he was making my son sad, because I did not understand this dynamic. The boy was hurt, told his mom and now Sam may not be playing at daycare. I would get no satisfaction out of beating a weaker opponent senseless in any game.

I don't understand the game, but am studying it on line and with a game manager in Lawrence.

Any feedback ... I feel a bit like Alice, sliding downward, downard, with little or no bearings.

Any help or Reiki would love.


Beau

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 9:11 AM
ID# 80788
This is a reply to: 80780
Otoharo!

Beau, I considered your question with a great deal of interest. As a child, I was so smart, I gathered that my parents must have left me to my own resources. They never guided me in anything. My mother sent me to make cornbread for supper. I would go as far as I could recall and go back to the front room to ask her what to do next. Adding each ingredient one at a time, I made my first pan of cornbread. From then on, that was my new chore.

This is an example of my parents concern for my welfare.

When I was rearing my children, they were exceptionally bright from birth. I more or less, learned from them constantly. So as I look back on it, it never occurred to me that I needed to protect them. Or myself, for that matter.

finality

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 10:09 AM
ID# 80793
This is a reply to: 80780
Beau - I think you are probably think just to hard on this one. While it is true that the two boys are better, you son will learn and one win, and he will do this on his merits. You probably shouldn't have said anything to the other boys, it embarasses both them and your son. And it is part of culture - it has always been, but individuals can always be different. We can only instill in ourselves and our children are values, and then hope for the best.

This to shall pass, and in a few years he will be a teen, then you should truly worry.

Bev

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 10:19 AM
ID# 80794
This is a reply to: 80788
Beau, I have continued to mull over this matter of providing protection for children. It is, of course, the function of the father to provide protection. My children's father had no concern for me or them and we eventually divorced.

I remember my father teaching me how to hoe the field (my borther was four, sister was six, and I eight). He was a good teacher. But once around was all it took, and he left us on our own.

My children grew up during the 60's and that was long before any of you were born. But the 60's were the years when drugs were the things. Once, my oldest son came in late at night with red eyes. I was so concerned about his eyes. He just said, in that tone all parents know, "Mo- Ther". That was all I ever learned about drugs among my children. Apparently they never made it a problem. One night I was accompanying my grown daughter at a party where most of the people were strangers to me. This was in the early days of spiritual awareness. As we went into their home after all of us had been sitting outside in the wonderful Florida atmosphere, I noticed a very strong smell just outside their back door. I stopped to sniff and declared that it smelled like there was a gas leak and was ready to annouce DANGER, when my daughter said, in that same tone, "Mo- Ther". I shut up.

I guess what I am saying is that each new generation of people may be coming in with more knowledge, wisdom, than their parents. Parents learn from them. So how does protection fit in. For me, as mother, I recall checking that their play area was safe, and went about my business while they played. I checked occassionally. That was about it. My mother, allowed us to spend the whole summer playing in the horse trough wearing old clothes which clung to us like another skin. She would look out the kitchen window once in awhile to see if we were OK and we called back to her. And that was that. We did not need to swim as the water came up to our waist or shoulders according to our age. Our father showed us one time, how to float by holding our nose and laying down on the water. That was the only safety lesson given. We did the belly bust for hours at a time taking turns. We kept watch on the wiggle tails along the algae that lined the inside. (wiggle tails are immature mosquitoes)

One of us would call back to "tell" on another but mother paid no mind to that. We were strickly on our own. No mediating.

My folks lived their lives though they had a house full of kids. Their conversation was with each other. And consisted mostly of mother catching my father up on the latest gossip in the neighborhood, or from my aunt in town. We read more than they did. Nobody talked about literature, social issues, or even issues of any kind that included us in any way. We just sat around, sniggling and jabbing each other under the table.

With my children, I was the one sharing with them the joys of all the things I was caught up in. It would not have occurred to me to share my frustrations. However, when I was changing jobs once, I commented that the new people were afraid of me, "Afraid? Of you?" my daughter asked bewildered.

So, Beau, you see how I can not really help you out any.

finality

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 12:08 PM
ID# 80795
This is a reply to: 80780
Beau, namaste ....

I know nothing about the game you mention, but several things shine through in your posting.

You have obviously taught Sam well, and it is beautiful that he takes so much care, not to "wipe you out" when he plays the game with you.

He knows about being sporting. However, he chooses to join in with his peers, and although he is sad, he acknowledges that he is learning ... on several levels I suspect. He always has the choice, I assume, not to play.
It does not sound, from what you say, that the other lads are doing anything wrong as such, except taking delight in winning from Sam, possibly seeing him as an easy touch. But it is not as though this is so in the rest of his life,from what you say.

Part of growing up is learning what the real world is like, and much as we would like to protect our children we have to loosen the strings, and just be supportive when they are hurt. I agree with the previous posting that it probably is not too good an idea to get involved yourself, this may do Sam no good in the eyes of his peers either.

It is a hard lesson for us as parents to learn I think.
Good luck anyway, these are just my thoughts.

Love and light,
philanty

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 5:00 PM
ID# 80805
This is a reply to: 80780
Hi Beau!
While I agree with the other replies that we can't shield our children from everything, and are not meant to, I don't think that we should accept this behaviour as 'cultural'.
Perhaps these boys have a domineering father who pushes and expects too much, so that the only outlet for these kids is against those smaller than them. They get their power back that way.

I have had a lot of exposure to card games and such, and agree that they are 'no-hols barred' sort of things. The cartoons are full of it, and they're especially directed at boys. There is little concern for those weaker and less able. But that reflects a lot of what's happening in the Western world, don't you think?

We change our culture by changing ourselves and offering our children explanations and alternative ways of seeing. You are proud of your child, with very good reason, he's very caring. I remind my own son to remember lessons like these when he is older, and dealing with those younger than him.
Light and love,
lyssa

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 5:52 PM
ID# 80810
This is a reply to: 80780
Oh boy as resident gaming geek am I ever qualified to answer this one.

The first question I will answer is that it's a cultural dynamic. We are told to be "good sports". But through the action of others we are shown that in the real world to disrgard this and go for the throat. Nice folks finish last.

As far as whether this is just trading card games or other thing stoo. I think it's any form of competitive recreational time. Be it sports, card games, video games , chess, etc. The point is to win. Were I to play in a tournament of any sort I'd play to my best ability. I'm there to give it my all and try my best to succeed. Frankly, you would be amazed at how well many children play any kind of game. If you don't believe me go slot your 50 cents in the machine at the arcade next to the kid who has read all the secret moves and see how you do.

The way I always view loss in games where I play against others is that it is the challenge that matters. My goal may be to win but if I end up not winning so be it. It's the fun in trying as long as it's as fair as it can be.I like to see how well I do. If i'm not super star player of the year, ehh whateva. It is just a game.

There are poor losers just as there are poor winners in any form of competition. I congradulate someone on how they played even if they sucked. "Hey, good job. You tried your best keep on trying."

The thing to remember about these card games is that it is not just about throwing down cards. It's strategy. It's about how you set up your play deck ( the games I have seen only allow x amount of cards so what you pick is instrumental). If you just take the cards you like as opposed to the cards that will benefit each other chances are you aren't going to do so hot. There are usually ways to specialize play decks and such. Trying to have every type of card is not a very good thing. Look to see what cards do specifically and choose wisely. Luck is involved of course. Just like any card game it's partly luck of the draw. Unfortunately the more powerful cards are harder to acquire do to rarity. And alot of these tournaments give a card or cards to the winner that can only be gained through winning.

Teaching someone a game is different. Helping someone who is new out is awesome and may or may not take some "babying". But remember everytime someone lays out one of those powerful combinations of cards they are exposing the player to that particular strategy. It is an opportunity to learn and better oneself.

Of course if I was teaching someone the game, or playing with someone less experienced just for fun i'd win some and i'd lose some intentionally.

I think that's part of the life lesson of it. We're not always going to succeed at everything every time we do it. I may lower my style of play but every challenge gives someone the chance to improve. If we let them win all the time are we really helping them get better? However, continually stomping the same person over and over gets old for all involved and just depletes the fun factor.

In some video games and such where players can compete some people will have more experienced characters game wise. After a certain point the mechanics don't allow someone to far below to win. It's an impossibility. For myself if I were the more experienced player I would not go around beating people up even if i somehow benefit within the game. It's not fun for me because there is no challenge and it's not fun for them because it has nothing to do with skill at that point there is statistically no chance for them to succeed. At the same time I would avoid someone who i knew could take me with little to no effort. Sometimes it's fun to do it anyways just to see what cool stuff they can do that you are unable to at that point. But if oen doesn't like to lose they shouldn't do that. Unfortunately, in any competition there is going to be someone who doesn't care about fairness, they are only concerned with how they can benefit at the expense of others. Of course competition isn't the only time this occurrs.

For me it's all about the challenge. These games teach forethought and thinking our actions through and in general it's a cool thing if one is into that way of learning. A very entertaining way for children to learn all manner of skills ranging from the aforementioned to hand eye coordination and social skills. And of course cheaters should be burned alive. : )

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 5:55 PM
ID# 80811
This is a reply to: 80793
I agree on the best not to say anything policy. The thing is the child being so young probably went " oh gosh i'm in trouble this adult disapproves". And felt like he was chastised missing the point that it was a joke.

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/20/2005 6:07 PM
ID# 80812
This is a reply to: 80805
As far as the cartoons go...look again. The heroes of the show are pushing themselves to the limit. But are all about fairness and being kind to others.Many times they may be aggressive against the "bad guys". But how many times does an episode end where the bad guy has learned the error of their ways because the "good" heroes triumphed. They are shown that their "wicked" ways do not make them as unbeatable as they think. Usually followed by a speech from main character X illustrating this point. Like real life, the heroes are more often than not the minority. But the point is to be the heroes not the "bad", "selfish" majority. To be a force of change and learn to succeed against any opposition without stepping on the little guys on the way up.

I do think it is the way the world works. I do not believe that it has to work this way, only that it does very often work this way. We each have the personal choice to take part in this or not.

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/21/2005 6:35 PM
ID# 80838
This is a reply to: 80794
Finality,

Oh your stories are so rich... they do help so. You would not know how I am held together by the wisdom of my elders, their struggles ... yours make mine small, are put in perspective. I apologized to the young man, swept my side of the street, and now I get to live my vision with my own guy, making some of the mistakes my parents made, getting stuff right at times, adding some of my own mistakes and gifts to the mix. And hoping my little guy does exactly the same. No one gets out of this life anything but a beautiful imperfect human being. Being a parent is the most humbling role in my life ... yet I am much gentler on me with my failures.

Also, I have a secret weapon. At around the age of 40 I figured out my parents were not gods, but human beings, with struggles, beauties, richness and sorrow that had nothing to do with me. That awareness frees me to love them with their warts.

And, I know both my kids are smarter than me ... they will get there way before 40. So I find sweet, subversive ways to love them when they are flying high on autonomy, hormones and the pixy dust of developmental independence. I wait for the great blossoming, just as my beautiful parents did for me.

It is such a blessing that you make music, art, healing and love out of past pain. You inspire me.

I love you.

Beau

re: Flustered Parent

posted at 1/22/2005 3:35 PM
ID# 80849
This is a reply to: 80805
I am glad this subject came up as my son who is 11 was talking about the Magic Gathering and how hard it is. He used to play Yu-gi-oh and was always losing to older kids yet is very bright. Now he seems to have lost interest in playing cards. Also some card theft.
peace,
Prosperity