The Reiki Cafe 

Hello,
Remembering what collection of wisdom is here, I present my confusion. Thinking of leaving the Roman Catholic Church. Have been very active there with teaching, choir etc. We HAD a very progressive, creative parish until a year ago when there were big staff changes and the new dogmatic, conservative forces came in. Last year my eyes were so opened to the political dances of the hierarchy, I felt that the beautiful words I was singing were out of place. I felt depressed being there. And yet, I am still conflicted about leaving. Part of me says that no community is perfect, and maybe I am just looking for what does not exist. And that I should just learn to live with imperfection. Since I don't live in a place where it is easy to access Native American ritual (where I really feel at home), I am not sure where I would go to find worship community. ( I do have access to drumming circles, however, which is positive.)I do love liturgy well done and the feeling of Spirit moving through community and the mysticism of the Catholic church. Many friends have left our parish due to some major issues, and it feels pretty sad to me. We have considered going to another parish, but we have seen too much of what is really going on in the whole Catholic church for that to resolve our dilemna. I say "our" because my husband is feeling the same way. I am feeling very weighed down by my inability to move forward with a decision to return or leave. Part of the timing issue is that now is the time to commit to fall programs. I have already said I won't teach this year, but I have to give an answer to the choir director in two weeks. Any reflections? I took the summer "off" and do feel better NOT being in the church......but maybe it was because I just let the decision go on the back burner.
Thanks,
Feather

dear feather,
sounds like you are going through a tough decision. . if you feel you dont like the new dogma or the way the church is run, you have some options: change the way the church is, change your own view, or move on. i would suggest that if you feel comfortable in native american ceromonies, that you find a local shaman or medicine man and talk with him/her about private or group cermonies you could start. always go with your heart, and dont feel pressured by others into making a choice. good luck!

namaste

feather,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- here is a suggestion based on an approach a friend of mine took many years ago when had roughly the same sorts of isssues as you describe: went and gave a 'final confession' - included in the confession were regretful feelings about the church, dogma, etc and that it was time to renounce catholicism

- a rather monumental step for certain but with so much ventilated and 'finalized' (as final as anythng is at any moment, of course) life seemed much more sensible after that

- hope this helps

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

dEAR Feather,
I have felt the same way years ago. I didn't like seeing pictures of fetuses thrown in garbage cans in the rectory. Also was so strict.
May I ask what the new conservative issues are now. Also there are many nuns and priests who have major disagreements in the Catholic church as well. Some leave, get married; some stay as there are few perfect systems. Many speak out too. Good luck.
Confession though is a valuable sacrament though as I myself would never go in for a final confession & complain about the church.
Thanks for your post,
Peace,
Prosperity

Hello, Prosperity,
The conservative issues now are basically that if a bishop or the archbishop hears that a priest is allowing open discussion about how the Catholic Church is being run, he is subject to discipline....being sent to someplace he does not want to go, etc. Voices of dissent are either ignored or told to ask for forgiveness. A whole parish may be closed down if the administration gets wind that the priest is not following the "letter of the law". For example, there is a dictate that priests are no longer to leave the altar area to shake hands during the exchange of a sign of peace. If the bishop hears that a certain priest wants to mingle and not be "on a pedestal", that priest is in trouble. Just about any injustice is met with a blind eye, and those who speak out about injustice are labelled troublemakers.Pervasive pathology.
Thanks for listening.
Feather

Well the way I see it is like this. If their views do not match your own views then why stay? Why teach that you do not believe? Why sing in the choir in a place against your own calling?

The thing about organized religion is that it is as much politics as it is religion. You don't have to let go of your own beliefs just because you go it alone.

I do understand the aspects of communtiy within the comgregation. People like to be with other like minded folks. The Bible itself even states one should meet with others who know God. The question is what does knowing God mean to you and does this group fit that description?Nowhere in the Bible does it state, " And let there be Christianity." To me following the Bible and following Christianity in the organized form can often be drastically different.Remember what the Bible does say is to follow your heart and the teaching of God, not the teachings of Man. So if what these conservative folks say is not in accord with what you believe then in order to follow God would mean to leave them.

The Book of Revelations states that one of the first things Jesus does upon his return is go after the corrupt churches to punish them.

One thing I think is cool about the Catholic church however is the way they did decide to get back to the old school form. This ca be good and bad, but alot of what the church itself believes was pushed a bit out of the way for public opinion.. One such case is excorcisms. The creation of Purgatory was another.

But think about if you are still in line with Catholicism. If you two still really do click then stay and try to work through the problems. Perhaps find a parish that is standing up for themselves.

Why not try to gather those who feel the Church is wrong in what it is doing and go form your own denomination? After all conflicts of this nature and in the interpretations of the doctrine is why the other denominations exist anyways.

Now on the other side of things is being hardcore in their view a bad thing? Is strict neccessarily not good or the right thing to do? Catholicism states certain things. they have a certain Doctrine. To the church this Doctrine IS the Word of God as they understand it. So in a way to speak against the politics is to speak against the determined doctrine of the denomination itself. If you don't approve of the denomintation that's one thing. But when you join a specific denomination you are really saying " I agree with this interpretation." . Otherwise why be in that denomination?

prosperity,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- for myself? I do make some distinction between expressing concerns or sadnesses over the state of things and "complaining".

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Dear Feather,
Oh, I do feel your pain. That is not a sarcastic comment, there is real pain involved with the seperation from religion or church. I was raised Roman Catholic in a family with both sides R.C. There is no other religion as far as my family is concerned!!
I have left the Church several times & gone back several times. I think I was looking for the innocent level of belief I had before I realized the degree of indoctrination & political beliefs I had been exposed to. Even then, I still longed for the spiritual connection of Mass & communion. Sorry to offend, but if a doctrine says this is the only way & if you dont like it, get out, can God be behind that?!! Even in any church, there is God & Spirit & then there are man's rules of religion. One has to wonder. If priests who abuse parishoners & children & stay in good graces until the publicity gets too politically hot, where is the similiar justice & grace for parishoners? It appears that it is politics that drives the church. If you look into it's history it has long been a political organization. ( Im not alluding to those conspiracy theories & secret society legends just the historically "proven" facts). Research how the dogma of original sin came into being for instance. A house divided among itself will fall. And the Catholic Church is not about to let anything cause it to fall especially not you.
I have resigned myself to the politics of the Church, if you belong you find a way to look the other way or accept it as it is or you leave. I no longer consider myself Catholic but even as I type this I feel the old familiar sway toward it. There is a saying that once you are Catholic, you are always Catholic & boy, do I relate to that!! I miss Mass, especially the Latin Mass. I miss lighting candles & praying in a perfectly quiet & sacred environment surrounded by statues of saints & angels. It comes down to the fact that I want to believe in it. It is so much harder to go it alone.
The Church has done many good things & there are many priests & nuns who have a special gift of spirit. There lies the church, in it's people who live what they believe. It was politics that killed Christ & persecuted the early church. We should remember that. People say that religion is the greatest war monger & killer of men but that is not quite right, it is secular and nonsecular politics!
No one can tell you what the right thing to do is. Follow your heart & spirit. And remenber that nothing is written in stone, you can go back & you can always leave.

peace & joy,
holobon

Hello Conflagration,
Thanks for your input. About the "doctrine" issue, many of the problems are not about doctrine, and many of the problems are BECAUSE the Church administration itself is NOT following its own doctrine.
Your insights are valuable and helpful.
Feather

Very well put. It is nice to hear the voice of one who has struggled as well.
Feather

Thanks to all of you for your wisdom.
I am considering all that is said, and allowing it to move in my mind and heart. I am allowing myself permission to be more fluid with the issue....to speak out where it feels appropriate,and not to feel bound in injustice. I realize I need mystical in my worship, and I won't find that many places, so I will find what I can and create what I can, and not worry about fitting into a mold. To sing with a choir means my spirit must be singing in that place, and it is not, and so, I think I must give that up for now. For I cannot sing a lie.
Thanks so much ......if you have further thoughts, please send them on......this is an issue that will be with me awhile.

Peace and Light!
Feather

Dear Firekeepr,
I hear ya. Just for myself I don't believe the confessional is the place to express regrets about the church. It is for examining a persons own conscience and mistaktes etc., and helped me as a child as I could express my wrongdoings and not get yelled out which I believe is counter productive. I did eventually move on. I may go back to confession one day soon though.
Just talking to a priest about concerns in a class setting; after mass briefly or just on the phone may, in my opionion, be more appropriate.
peace,
Prosperity

Awwww Bless you Nettie! *hugs you warmly**

I've never been quite so involved in church as you though I did go to church as a child.
I could never get over the hell and brimstone teachings and as I grew older and had more discernment ( my own belief systems) in what was truth for me it made it even more difficult to listen to these teachings.

I'm so thankful for my own spirituality. I use my own heart as my alter to lay my issues before spirit for spiritual upliftment and healing.
Knowing you as I know you I'm sure you are likely doing similar things. But I don't feel its necessary for me to go to church to hear dogmatic teachings that have nothing to do with love.
The big question is what would love do in these situations? I cannot deal with anyone being left out of the circle of love and cannot stand by to listen or pretend like its ok with me. Thats why I can't go to church. I love the singing, I love listening to people talk about their personal love of God cause I'm right there with them; a heart full of love for the big Guy/oddess. :}

If I want bigotry, I can listen to the tv, read the paper, listen to people on the street speaking their intolerance.
I figure I don't need that kind of blessing. That type of separation theory is what got me messed up in my childhood, I'm really not interested in revisting that stuff. I'm still working to work it out of my cells. I'm choosing to look upward and see where I can make a difference.

Churches can be so loving and helpful to others in need and I'm thankful that they fulfill the needs of so many who would othewise be spritual and physically bankrupt.
But my heart doesn't need that. I am strong and I'm making a difference from my very own home and my heart.

I try to stay centered in whats right for me and ultimately whats best for all my brothers and sisters.

So, nettie, ask yourself if you feel good when you are at the church.
Ask yourself whether you can hold your head high with the teachings and inspritation these people are giving their congregation.
Is it built on trust and love, or on separation?
is anyone left out of this circle?
Do some folks get to feel good while others - the sinners!
get to feel less then?

These are only questions with answers only you have. Perhaps you have grown past the need for the church as you know it.
Maybe its time to take matters into your own hands and have a weekly get together at your house ( or rotate houses!) on Sundays and share your love of Creator in ways that make your heart sing with others of like mind. You don't have to be in church to worship our Creator. Just take with you what you love about the church ( singing and scripture thats pleasing) and leave the rest back there with the conservatives. Its all about the love in the end isn't it?

The world is your oyster Sister so go out and claim it and make it as you would see it manifest on earth!

Aho!

Jahnavi