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Reiki Friends,

Namaste...

I have been asked to participate in a church "cleansing". The Christian church I have attended for many years has been heavy laden with many conflicts resulting in temporary leadership (three different interims all leaving for serious health issues withing the last year) and members feeling very drained and frustrated. The sense of "spirituality" is at an all time low.

To be honest, I was taken aback by the suggestion, as this is typically a more traditional group. But many have sensed the negativity "looming" and want to do something about it.

I think they are thinking of ceremonially going through the entire church (this is a prayer group around 10-12 people)... "rebuking Satan" and then pouring Love/Light into each room.

Normally I would not entertain this notion, but one has to see life from the eyes of another to understand sometimes. Wouldn't there "Satan" be just their word for what we see as "negative energy"?

Or is that over simplistic?

Just curious what you all think...

Abundant blessings,

In Love/Light,

Mammabear

mammabear,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- my sense is that when people use the term Satan they refer to something rather more 'powerful and enduring' on the "evil scale" than a bit of "negativity" that is mostly generated 'locally', so to speak.

>:-}}

- for 'negativity' a good smudging would be very helpful (making certain that the congregation walks thru the smoke as well)

>:-}}

- certain of the eastern orthodox christian groups do incense regularly (for clearing but also for celebration, which is, after all, often a "positive" thing)

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Dear Mammabear,
Not sure if it matters if the concept is negative energy, evil, Satan, etc as much as the intention to come together & do something poitive about it. A cleansing ceremony & stating an intention for the negativity to be gone is a positive declaration & should help on some level. The concern would be that they not use a scapegoat ( the Devil, the former leaders, etc) to cover over issues that need to be dealt with: "many conflicts" and "serious health issues". Moving forward & letting go of the past is a good sign, if this is the intention. Supertitious fear however doesnt generally relax it's hold that easily. And it is sometimes easier to assign blame to others than look inward.
So, you are probably in a better position to get a feel for the attitude there & the intentions in the proposed cleansing ritual. It may even help to bring people together & foster a sense of spirituality.
peace & joy,
holobon

Mammabear,

Hi.

I agree with the notion that the intention of those doing the cleansing and also the intentions those who will then return to the 'cleansed' church are important. Afterall, a cleansing may be easily 'undermined' when many may not accept that they are they source of the 'negativity'

;)

Cheers (sweet grass and sage for my sweatlodge)

RC

PS: I would be interested in what, if any cleansing 'ritual' is undertaken'

Hey Mamabear,
I think that the cleansing is a great idea.. Can you use frankensense and Myrrh to help you cleanse?

I call Satan Fear. Because fear is the opposite of love.
Just my thought on this one.

I remember last year going to a funeral and the church was catholic last year.
They used Frankensense and Myrrh and the effects were amazing for me personally..

Blessings and good luck,

Jahnavi

Firekeeper,

Namaste...

I like the way you say this... "more powerful and enduring", etc. I really think that is where they are coming from, but wasn't sure if it was the same "stuff".

One comment I have to make here is that one person from our congregation claims to have had an experience they considered... "evil". Don't have details on that, but I trust the individual who makes the claim.

In that respect... what would you suggest?

Some even suggest this "activity" has been around for decades in this church, though I'm wondering if it isn't more connected with certain individuals than "evil".

Of course smudging is always good, I use this myself, but not sure this group would be good with that. They are more the "carry bible and cross in hand" type.

I'm trying to "work with" that... hard as it is for me. A test in understanding, tolerance and patience, to be sure. But they certainly have surprised me thus far!

:-)

I also like your point of a more regular clearing as well. I will suggest that one for sure... especially after board meetings.

:-)

Always appreciate any insight...

Abundant blessings,
Mammabear

Holobon,

Namaste...

Hello! Always so nice to hear from you...

:-)

I totally agree on your point about intention. That will be the main focus for sure.

Also I like how you mention the "letting go and moving forward". Something this church wrestles with. There has been so much pain resulting from harsh words and just plain bad manners that folks are having a hard time healing.

I sure hope you are right about it helping to bring people together, etc. It certainly is my heartfelt prayer...

...but one mammabear can only do what she can do, the rest is like you say up to them to discover "inward".

Thanks for your comments, and hope you are well!

Abundant blessings,

Mammabear

Hey Jahnavi,

Namaste...

Enjoyed a few trips to the bay this summer. Papa got some new toys to play with... two jetskis.

:-)

I have considered frankincense and myrrh actually but one of the group has major allergy issues, so it may have to be a "scent-free" clearing.

Most unfortunate as I find the sense of smell to be very powerful when helping with focus and intention, at least for me anyway.

:-)

I read once... "fear is the devil's greatest tool".

I certainly see where they're coming from.

Take care and many blessings to you,

Mammabear

RC,

Namaste...

Thank you for your words.

Our last interim pastor was helping bring to light this idea of taking responsibility for the role played in the need for healing.

He was loved so much by all eventhough he was there only a few months. I swear the man was hiding angel wings.

He is now end stage cancer... my mentor and dear friend.

:-)

I will be happy to share what we do with you... it won't be for a few weeks however, because I think it is something we need to really think about.

Abundant blessings,

Mammabear

Hi Mammabear

I have dealt with cleansings (not of a church) it was a private residence. Seems there was an entity there that decided it wasn't letting anyone inside (the place was up for sale) This person said when they actually were inside the dwelling the hair on the back of their neck would standup, just didnt feel comfortable. I was asked if there was something I could do. I am a Reiki Master and also do what some label cosmic energetic healing...

I went there had a lil chat (so to speak) thru muscle testing and just intuitively, with the entity that was there, asking my guides to help this entity to leave the 3rd dimension and go on past the light, that it was safe for them to do this, nothing to fear.. etc. Asked for a complete blessing of pure love energy to flow thru the dwelling and surround it in love and light for the greatest and highest good. And giving thanks to my guides, for it is actually them doing the healing.

The following day, the person went back.. no more problems. House sold and the person who had asked this of me said they unlocked the door with no issues and the "feeling" was gone. Said it felt "new" and "refreshing somehow"

just my experience... blessing of love and light to you on your groups church cleansing.

Peaceful Spirit

Otoharo!

Mammabear, I congratulate you on your willingness to pitch in with this group. In my viewpoint, ego would qualify as the devil and each person has one. Fear always comes from ego. Any fear. They would not have the language background to underswtand the term ego, however. But you do. I use to be a preacher's wife. I have experience with church groups. The backbiting is a hard one to cope with. Blessings on you for your intent here.

finality

I think the intent to bring positive energy is wonderful, no matter what we label that which is not positive. I have seen transformations happen within people's hearts and minds when intent is wedded to incense, song, chant, prayer, bells and clapping. All pretty common stuff in many forms of worship. We are all One, no matter what our beliefs. And who can say which belief is "the truth." Even a rousing Gospel choir can shake up stale energies! I think it is a great idea!
Keep us posted.
Love,
Feather

Mammabear,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- 'hate' or bigotry in their primal or archetypal forms would be cases of the "more powerful and enduring" of which I speak and which drive the generational enmities between ethnic groups, religious orders, etc - animosities that cross millenia (all generated by people and groups) - hence "group karma"

>:-}}

- personal jealousies or envy or small power or ideological struggles or ambitions or?? are more often reflective of the Shadow energy that infest our everyday lives and places

- so, yes, probably a tricky issue in that crowd; to admit, as a congregational community that there is something amiss in uptopia is not easy; and less easy that the utopians are responsible

>:-}}

- in the last year of my attendance, the minister of the church 'I went to' from age 9-12 (he was the father of one of my best buddies) was 'fired' becasue he was discovered to be a philanderer and using church facilities for some of his "spiritual comfortings"

>;-}}

- abuse of 'spiritual power' would, for many, fall not uneasily into the "evil" category - it certainly rates pretty high on my scale of nastiness

- so, how do the cross and bible carriers feel this negativity got there and how do they suggest it be dealt with? Can you share some ideas and suggestions others have made?

- for myself, I suspect that many ideas may reflect a certain 'denial' or finger-pointing once one gets down to brass tacks and reflect the standard disclaimer "it's in the lord's hands"

- but I will try not to be too pre-judgemental

bagl

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Firekeeper,

Thank you for your gentleness... this is hard for me, too.

LOL

I can relate to your story. I also imagine there have been quite a few who have been turned off so badly by the misconduct of a spiritual leader, they wash their hands of a spiritual life in general... no matter what faith. Sad for sure.

This group believes this situation has evolved over time. Just a gradual "building up" of conflicts and meanness. They think the condition has grown over the decades and is now to the point of hurting the pastors... physically.

I believe they would like to do a "sweep". Start from the front door and go through each and every room "rebuking Satan" with bible and cross in hand, then filling each room with love/light and blessing it.

I was planning to use some of the protection methods I've been taught beforehand, and also use some reiki symbols mentally.

But understand, there is work being done to try and address the conflict issues there, too. Our district has sent in a team to interview members to try and pinpoint where the problems are coming from. This proved helpful in identifing problems (and who, too).

Problem has been though, without consistent leadership, the recommendations of this team have fallen somewhat to the side.

So there, we're back to this idea of "Satan" trying to take over the church and gain control.

Are you dizzy yet?

bagl

Take care... and thanks
Mammabear

Mammabear,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- yes, sounds like quite an undertaking to get involved in and try to add some 'non-traditional' power to, so to speak

>:-}}

- there have been instances in the past where I have reacted to "stuff' in a room or building that made me ill at my stomach and, once, actually a little dizzy

- twice this was a place that was to be used for reiki classes (a seminar center at our universiy that is used by all sorts of people) - I had some pretty good work to do to get this space ready for the RM and the students (I was an assisting Reiki 2 at the time)

- so I can feel for those who may also react to accummulated crap

>:-}}

- I guess I was wondering how they feel that 'rebuking satan' will be effective when they obviously believe satan has invaded their sanctuary - a place that is probably blessed at least several times a week so to keep 'satan' out??

- and 'rebuking satan' still really does not, to me, bring the work down to the level of individual Shadow matters

- but it sounds as if that is being addressed also in some fashion (without too much finger-pointing)

- good luck

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Mammabear,

When I took my reiki II, I was taught a procedure to bless or neutralise the energy in a room.

This might be an appropriate course of action for you to follow and, if you wish, I can give you the details.

Beannacht leat.

Firekeeper,

Namaste...

Yes, your reaction in your example makes one wonder how else this could be effecting our members.

All the more reason I'd like to try and help... afterall my cubs go there as well.

- I guess I was wondering how they feel that 'rebuking satan' will be effective when they obviously believe satan has invaded their sanctuary - a place that is probably blessed at least several times a week so to keep 'satan' out??

I don't believe such blessings are being done, sad to say. I don't hear this type of message at service either.

The idea is for the group to strongly reprimand the "demon" that exists in the church and insist that it leave invoking the Christ and other lighted beings (ie. Archangel Michael, etc.)to help with this task.

I have been wanting to explore the church alone to see if I can sense any real "evil" entity... not that I can proficiently do this, or if I'm just picking up alot of negative energy.

My thoughts are on the later, but then I can't explain what happened to the individual in the one classroom either. I'd like more details on that, too but not sure how to ask.

:-)

We're hoping the new pastor due to arrive in Dec. will help the congregation with the "shadow self". And much healing will need to be done.

But I'm hopeful... many there are very loving people and would give you the shirt off their back. Just sad to see them so sad and "needy" spiritually. For the most part, they really do yearn for the "Light".

Take care,

Abundant blessings,

Mammabear

Mammabear,

Hi.

Cancer is, in many respects, an issue of the Heart (karmically speaking). Those hinding angel wings may also be hiding some horns as well. ;) There is an "invocation' I have been using for many years that can be useful for clearing in instances such as you describe (or simply to prepare a space for ritual and celebration). It is normally made aloud, as the spoken word may be imbued with much 'force', but it can be done "silently" as well and with effect. If you would like I will share it with you by e-mail.

As for the suggestion about smudging? I suspect that most christian church-goers do not go in for that sort of thing - perhaps becasue it harks back to pagan (albeit " pre-christian") practices a bit too much for their 'temperments'. And as I hear many people say: pagan = satanic. Rubbish, but an 'evil' idea that has been festering for many years now.

Cheers, (a blend of frankincense + myrrh for smudging)

RC

Mammabear,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- in my own experience, if there is an entity of sufficient malice in the building one may not need a great deal of 'sensitivity' to notice - getting run over by a freight train, etherically speaking', is hard to miss

bagl

- however, the presence of a good deal of accummulated 'negativity' is hardly the same thing.

- if you decide to ask to go into the building 'after hours, so to speak, to 'poke around' then please take care

- if it were me? In addition to protections I would invoke and create beforehand, I would be sure to carry a totally black obsidian ball of at least 2.5 inches in diameter and my working rattle that has been properly smudgged beforehand.

- but, that is just me (some years ago a friend asked me to do a clearing on an office she was taking over for her private practice - said she sensed some 'nastiness in here') so there were no others around that evening to 'interfere'

- also, a friend went to do a house clearing and did not follow my suggestions about protections. She left her drum outside the house on a stone wall - well when she and the other people in the clearing party came out her drum had been destroyed without any sign of how it might have occurrred (I saw that drum - it was little more than detritis)

- good luck,

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Firekeeper,

"Hard to miss" LOL ... that's what I was thinking too, I really think we're dealing with negative energies... long accumulated.

I also ought to try talking to the church secretary who is often in there alone. Surely she must know something, too.

And I'll be careful... thanks for the concern.

:-)

In Light and Love,

Abundant blessings,

Mammabear

Hello Mamma Bear!
Bummer about the scent thing.

Where were you on the bay? I'm in Chesapeake Beach Maryland. If you are close you should let me know for goodness sakes.. It's always fun to work with new blood.. heheheh....

Your message at the end would read for me..
Fear is fears biggest tool.. :}

Jahnavi

Mammabear,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- when I was a boy scout (no comments, please! bagl) our Troop met at the church I mentioned in a previous post in this thread (I left the boy scout path at age 12 as well). One weekend we had to cancel a camping trip (and snipe hunt) due to snow storm and ended up staying over night at the church because parents could not come retrieve us. The electricity went out about 10;00 PM or so and even though there were 10 of us and the Scout Master, trying to get to sleep in the church was "spooky" to say the least. It was one of the experiences that helped me learn how to 'sleep anywhere'.

bagl

- is the church secretary single, by any chance?

- good luck,

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Firekeeper,

Scouting is noble... why now would I mock you?!!!

bagl

Interesting though that you had these changes in your life coming into the "age of reason".

The Youth there have all night "lock ins" at church and say they have the same "spooky" feelings. But they keep going back for more, so I guess it's not too bad.

:-)

Our secretary is presently single. She has buried two husbands. She has been with our church for about six years now.

She was retired and got terribly bored so decided to do part time secretarial work.

Of course, you must tell me why you asked.

Mammabear

Jahnavi,

Namaste...

We like to put in at Sandy Point Beach near Annapolis. We spend the whole day there and head up the Severen River. I'm located about 1 1/2 hours away... north of there in PA.

I guess it's a double whammie when you fear, fear.

bagl

Did you all get any rain from Ophelia yet? We're hoping actually, but seems like no rain for us. We could really use it, too.

Take care,

Mammabear

Peacefulspirit,

Namaste...

Thanks for sharing your experience. Glad it worked out so well for you.

You mentioned muscle testing... my RM does a lot of this and swears by it.

So I am learning too. I find it very beneficial and hadn't thought to use it. Good thought...

Take care,

Mammabear