The Reiki Cafe 

How do you guys understand patience? Can it exist without faith?

And what happens when you need both and you have neither? Reiki should help cultivate both virtues I should think but does it really?

***I bet Firekeeper will say something obscure about Intent now***

Blessings,
Whatever

Dear Whatever,

Patience can mean different things. It can mean waiting in a long line, coping with another person's shortcomings, or achieving long lifetime goals.

Yes, faith helps. Another thing I think is important, maybe more so than faith, is the letting go of expectations and desires,and acceptance that things take their own time. Even though I have faith I'll get to the front of the line, I let go of my desire to get there fast, and I accept that it may move slowly. I let go of my desire for the other person to act as I wish, and accept that person for what they are. I let go of the desire to accomplish my goals quickly, and instead, accepting that they'll be accomplished when the time is right.

That's my take on the subject.

Blessings,
Roxy

Well, you 're obviously farther ahead on the path than me. I do not accept that my goals have to take zillions of years to be accomplished. It's a bit like some people pat you on the back and tell you, "don't worry, you 'll get there in the end". But hang on, I wanna have fun before the end, what's wrong with that?!?!?!

Also, some things you want them when you want them. If you are given them much later, it's often the case you are not as interested as before and therefore not as glad to have them. So what's the point...

The hardest thing for me to accept is that some people whom I perceive as very unspiritual and of dubious ethics seem to get their goals much faster than me...Is it my perception that 's not clear or is Life ultimately unfair? [please don't tell me about karma because the only fair scenario would be for people to get instant karma or at least close to the act, not lifetimes later]

Blessings,
Whatever

Dear Whatever,

I understand your feelings about wanting things quickly. I expect impatience is a part of being human, and of course I've gone through that. Still do sometimes.

As for unethical, nonspiritual people getting what they want sooner? I don't think it's so much karma, but the fact that they probably are pushier. Their priorities are different, and the way they handle life is different.

I guess it's what you want out of life, too.

Blessings,
Roxy

Otoharo!

You've just about said it all!

finality

Otoahro!

Nothing wrong with taking time out for fun! And at the end, fun is all there is!

finality

Whatever,

There's a veritable goldmine for thought in this post...

By the time you get something you no longer want it...something about the transience of desire might go nicely here, as well as the observation that desire (of one sort or another)continually and endlessly arises.

As for "very unspiritual" people getting things faster...does being "spiritual" (whatever that means!) entitle you to more rapid gratification? Is there some sort of spirituality = prosperity equation that I don't know about?

And if you're missing fun along the way...? Whose responsibility is that, anyway? I don't agree with Finality that it's all fun, but there sure is a lot to be had.

I would suggest, as well, that perhaps age and length of perspective/experience is relevant here, but as you've turned of profile access it's hard to make a definitive comment. Years of being (seemingly) thwarted at every turn was a great inducement for me to learn the P word...or maybe I just too old and tired to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

BOOM!
goldenisis

Dear Goldenisis and Whatever,

I thought about what Whatever aaid "you must be more evolved". I have to agree with the fact that just being on the planet longer has an effect on building patience. I don't think I was able to achieve much patience at all, until I passed the big four-O.

I also found that lack of patience can really serve to get in your way of achieving your goals, too.

Blessings,
Roxy

Otoharo!

Golden Isis, profiles works on my computer.

finality

Otoharo!

By at the end, I am referring to HEB's. Once when one of the group members was driving here, Xaris was playing around on her hood as the hood orniment!

finality

Otoharo!

Each day that I reread these posts, more ideas come in. I recall as a child, that I had infinite patience. I sat in a corner of the front room and cut out paper dolls. That kind of patience has been a part of me all my life. The things I desired were easy to get. Until I married. then all kinds of blocks occurred. I finally after 13 years, grew out of patience and simply got a divorce, no need in slamming my head against a brick wall any longer.

Now, what I desire so far has been unattainable to me. But I am still at it! that is, I desire to enter the fourth density. I plug away at it day after day and all nights. the thing is, I am not sure how to go about it, so I try one thing and another. the hard part comes when I can not get out of my head! That is terribly frustrating and tries my patience fiercely. But that doesn't really matter. that is the impatience does not really matter. I resign myself to plug away. Move out of my head when I can. Stay in being when I can. Feel my feelings. Play my music. Sooth myself. Have another whack at it.

finality

whatever,

/*\ Namsate :-}}

- as a Teacher once remarked to me: "intent is only obscure to those who neither see how to cultivate it or make the effort"

>:-}}

- as for patience?? You said in part: "Reiki should help cultivate both virtues I should think but does it really?"

- are you asking if Reiki will do this on its own?? Without any focus and intention from you??

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

firekeeper said

>- as a Teacher once remarked to me: "intent is only obscure to those who neither see how to cultivate it or make the effort"
>
>>:-}}
>
>- as for patience?? You said in part: "Reiki should help cultivate both virtues I should think but does it really?"
>
>- are you asking if Reiki will do this on its own?? Without any focus and intention from you??

I wanna talk to this Teacher and ask what they mean when they say "to those who neither see how". If a person doesn' t see how, well then that's not their fault, they just can't see! So maybe the Teacher in question should tell/show them.

No, I don't expect Reiki to do it without focus or Intent from my side. That said, if Intent is so important and I had developed it enough, then I wouldn't need Reiki to begin with. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone...makes to me.

Blessings,
Whatever

goldenisis said on

>Whatever,
>
>There's a veritable goldmine for thought in this post...
>
>As for "very unspiritual" people getting things faster...does being "spiritual" (whatever that means!) entitle you to more rapid gratification? Is there some sort of spirituality = prosperity equation that I don't know about?
>
>And if you're missing fun along the way...? Whose responsibility is that, anyway? I don't agree with Finality that it's all fun, but there sure is a lot to be had.
>

Yes, Goldenisis, I thought sticking to spiritual laws should bring better and faster results. It makes sense but also, it would make more people eager to apply those laws(if their heart didn't urge them).

I have an issue with injustice...maybe it's a matter of perception again, but from where I stand, yeah, it seems unfair for ruthless, ego-driven people to get what they want while others who 've been soul-searching for years and trying to walk a spiritual path, get stuck in the rut.

As for having fun, I just think it depends on your life circumstances. Sometimes things can be so tough you just cannot muster any energy to enjoy yourself.

By the way, thank you all for contibuting to this thread. Much appreciated. :)

Blessings,
Whatever

Otoharo!

Whatever, I have had a brain storm about this issue of why it seems those of us making effort to follow spiritual laws seem to get stuck in the rut whereas others who may not even be aware of such things as spirit and spiritual pathways, seem to have an easier time of it. I do not know whether I can put this into words but here goes!

Those unaware, will be coming back many, many lifetimes. Those of us making effort to acheive spiritual goals, are using this lifetime to close the gaps and simply working at it whereas the others play unaware that there is work to do. I prefer to work at it myself. Of course, one can take a holiday life and just play for the fun of it!

finality

whatever,

/*\ Namsate :-}}

- it was my impression from this Teacher that the key to the entire thought was really contained in the second half of the statement

>:-}}

- as for the rest? One view is that a Teacher may 'show' until he\she\it is blue in the face, but it is the Student who must 'see', afterall

>:-}}

Reiki All Around,

All Blessings,

Firekeeper

Whatever,

Why does being "spiritual" entitle one to bigger/faster/better? Is there some scorekeeper I've not heard about? How does it make sense?

BOOM!

I think one of the attractions of the idea of Karma as punishment and reward is that it seems to explain why life seems unfair. While I think we come into this life with specific lessons to learn...and the accompanying difficulties to learn them, I have doubts that there is any good/bad tally going on.

Blessings,
Roxy

Com' on, Goldenisis,don't you believe in spiritual law? If you do, then don't you believe that following it(them) would align you with Spirit Itself therefore you 'd be more likely to receive Divine help?

Makes sense to me.

Finality, yes, you got a point there, that must be it. :)

Firekeeper, are you a teacher yourself? I find you a bit biased against students. ;)

Blessings,
Whatever

Hi Roxy,

Totally agree, good and bad are things that we ascribe to actions or lack of them.

Karma is more like a force of nature to me and nature is neither good or bad it just is. It also takes no prisoners gives no quarter.

So if you don't have the correct change don't get on the bus. :-)) (that didn't mean anything I just liked the sound of it :-))

Patience is one of my big ones. Thought I was doing pretty well until I quit smoking a few months ago. :-)) I can now go from 0 to 'off with their heads' in a nano second. :-)) No relief on the horizon yet. :-) Need to work on that. :-)

(that is where those other affectionate names come into play :-))

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

Dear Becca,

What I find interesting is the concept of Karma as a force of nature. I've been thinking along the same lines, that it's more of a cause and effect that puts a sort of energy into motion. The movement can't stop until it's dissipated or blocked by another cause.

Blessings,
Roxy

Hi Roxy,

I could be totally wrong but that is pretty much how I see it.

Every thought or action is energy. Energy is never lost. It can be redirected or transformed but it doesn't evaporate. It does disperse so the effect of it may be a thousand tiny cuts rather than a beheading, or a thousand smiles and small joys rather than gob smacking happiness.

:-))

hugs

Walk in beauty,
Rebecca

Whatever,

"Spiritual law?" Not at all sure what that is, but I will throw out a few thoughts...

"The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike." -- the bible

"You cannot petition the lord with prayer." -- The Doors, 'Soft Parade'

The notion of 'if I do this I'll get that' ("that" being "Divine help") might be considered a fairly simplistic formula which, among other things, presupposes a Divine in the first place; and secondly, that some sort of reward for good behavior is in one's best interests: "All prayers are answered. Sometimes the answer is, "No.""

If it's the "divine" which rewards or not, and "good" behavior isn't rewarded while "bad" behavior is, it seems to follow that the "Divine" is either a blindfolded idiot throwing darts at a board, or knows something you don't. Take your pick. Or consider, if you will, the story of Job. Remember, his buddies finally concluded that he must have done something pretty awful to have been so tormented, and what he really needed to do was 'fess up. [Funny how one never sees any comment about how that story illustrates Yahweh's raging pride, pride being considered one of the seven deadly sins...]

I also don't believe in the so-called "Threefold Law," popular among some pagans, which posits that what one does, for good or ill, returns multiplied by three. [I also never heard any sort of rational explanation for the calculus until I read Starhawk's commentary on it.] I do, however, believe that reliance on such formulae and "laws" (such as those found in the bible) are for folks who need some sort of external constraint(s) because they haven't yet internalized their own set of values: ultimately, one does the right thing simply beause it's the right thing. As for karma? Other than what is called proximate karma, as in if you bang your head against a wall you're most likely going to wind up with a headache, I'm really not big on it. Regrettably, it's like what one might call the retroprediction of astrologers concerning various events: it's invariably ex post facto, and therefore essentially meaningless. Besides, it relies on time as a linear concept and we all know...

I believe in the unremitting need of Homo sapiens in toto to attempt to find order and pattern regardless of circumstance (Mommy, that cloud looks like a horsey!).

Once upon a time I was involved in a discussion about karma and action and so forth. Afer we had (at least momentarily)
exhausted the subject and there was a lengthening lull in the conversation, a somewhat brain-injured woman who had heretofore been silent suddenly blurted out, "Don't know, go straight." That may be just about the most profound thing I've ever heard.

Bright blessings; hail Eris!
goldenisis

Roxy and Becca,

Mmmmmmmm...Sounds an awful lot like Newtonian physics to moi, to wit (and I'll quote loosely here):

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction;

and

A body at rest tends to remain at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. Similarly, a body in motion tends to remain in motion unless, etc., etc., etc..

On the other hand, what happens when we look at the whole enchilada in terms of quantum physics? [I have no idea, it was just a thought that occurred to me, and I'll try not to have any more of them, they make my little head hurt.]

BOOM!
goldenisis

My dear Goldenisis,

You're quite right, Newtonian. I just see karma as an energy following physical laws. And what sets it into motion is our actions.

As for quantum physics? Since we're not dealing with subatomic particles, I'm not really sure it applies. ;-P

Love,
Roxy