The Reiki Cafe 

What is enlightenment?

A few interesting question for everyone,

What is enlightenment?

Is enlightenment knowing all that is…or is it, as one master put it, ”when I became enlightened it was not that I knew all the answers it was no longer had any questions”

Would we all be the same if we were all enlightened?

If everyone was enlightened would the world be boring?

Are all presently enlightened people the same?

Do enlightened people still have personalities, likes and dislikes?

Is there any absolute agreement, religion to religion – spiritual practice to spiritual practice, on what enlightenment is?

Shi Chinmoy once said that enlightenment itself evolves and that enlightened masters 100 years form now will be more enlightened than current enlightened masters. What do you think?

All answers welcome
All questions welcome as well

Food for thought
rich

Also,

How do you know if you are enlightened?
How do you know if anyone else is enlightened?

Is enlightenment a permanent state?
Can you be enlightened and then become unenlightened?

More food for thought
rich

Dear Rich,
Cant say that Im experienced in this area ....:) but it appears to be a process..can it or does it ever end? Perhaps the end of enlightenment is beyond our comprehension as earth inhabitants. We might be aware of only a minute part of the chain of our own existence. (Is an ant aware of the solar system?) And then again, perhaps we are recycled to begin anew, a concept I prefer not to dwell on!! Im having a hard enough time getting up this ladder as it is.
If we become enlightened will we eliminate the need for our bodies, be other than bodies? If so, perhaps boredom would not be an issue then. While still in the physical, it seems that things might get a bit stale if we were all "evolved". Where will all the stand up comics go if the world is all PC? LOL.

peace & joy,
holobon

Please understand where I am coming from.

One of my goals here is stimulate conversation and thought. So I may challenge an idea but I am not challenging, criticizing or judging you. Do not take my comments personally. I enjoy good lively meaningful conversation.

:- )

If we were all enlightened would that end all un-politically correct humor?
An enlightened person would not, could not make an off color joke, dirty joke, racist or sexist joke……why not?

Do we evolve past laughing at silly, off color joke, dirty joke, racist or sexist jokes?

Food for thought
rich

Hi Rich
I would never personally trust anyone who told me they were enlightened. It to me is the same as people saying they have no ego.
In both case's I don't believe that if you were enlightend or had no ego that you would be bothered or rather care enough to tell anyone.
Isn't enlightenment, just being?
Namaste
Rob

Dear Rich,
Oh my, not taking what you said personally & my reply was my response, not an emotional negative reaction. For the record, when I do take something personally, once I get past the reacting stage, it is a good/god lesson. Perhaps that makes me a recovering reactor? This will always be a challenge for me, at least this time around. :)
I too enjoy lively conversation. Sometimes I do take offense when people are baited, no matter what the forum. ( not accusing you or self or anyone else..but it is very easy to misinterpret another in a message forum such as the cafe. After rereading my posts I will see another intepretation other than the originally intended one. So one has to be careful in reacting to posts, the person is not available to discuss issues one to one, face to face. I miss that because I draw a great deal from that nonverbal communication. So, I admit to trying to be PC here, as flaming can be harmful. Knowing that I react forces me to think things through or get stuck wallowing in my emotion. There are those times when we only get to the truth when one is not PC. It is in the gritty halls of anger, laughter, frustration, tears,etc. where the buried truth is revealed. But who knows what another is going through & the resources at their disposal. Intent is to go gently but....well, I is/are human.
I think that the more we evolve the more aware & sensitive we become. Compassion grows & our personal sensitivity or ability to be offended personally decreases. With that said, I mean to convey that I am not patting myself on the back, I have a long way to go. There is no harm in recognizing that. I am thankful for personal progress but not forgetting where I have been and can be again if not attentive.
Gee, got carried away......

peace & joy,
holobon

Hello Rich,

Here's some of my thoughts.
It is a process~
It could be a societal or personal trend or movement in thoughts and realities of experiences~
A social and enviromental awareness of events, changes, reasons which can bring experience and understanding and knowing and change~
Transcending materialistic values for natural ones~
Not just accepting scientific conclusions but experiencing and exploring individual experiences while understanding/accepting we are unique and yet one with all there is and something larger than the oneself~

We are each unique to our own life's exploration, experiences and how we will evolve physically, mentally and spiritually becoming more "enlightened" or perhaps not.

Will we all be the same? probably not
I do not think we could ever get bored with the world.
I think everyone has and will have their own personality, likes and dislikes, free will and choice.
I do not think there is or will be any "group minded" total agreement/opinion on who is or who is not enlightened.

Re: achieving enlightenment... I think the key is experiences which evolve into knowledge and choices which evolve into action or non-action and personal thoughts/decision which evolve into settling the physical and mental experiences and then allow one the spiritual journey. and then to reverse this if one is in their mind totally enlightened as the masters you describe by their statements above then I would think they would approach their experiences, which they will still have, from the spiritual perspective first.

Enlightenment is just learning and evolving towards our own highest good.

Donna

Otoharo!

Holobon, I can not respond to this thread as I do not know what enlightenment refers to. It is not a term we use. It seems to indicate to me that some persons see it to indicate a step forward not a finished goal. Someone finished would not be able to stay here.

finality

Yes Rob,I feel you just hit the nail on the head.

I remember going to a lecture given by some Indian guru once and I remember him commenting:''You cannot talk about enlightment.You can only be enlightenment.''

I agree totally

I believe most of us have had glimpses of a truly enlightened state.I know I 've had some.And now that I 've tasted it, I want MORE OF IT!NOW!(Ok, we 're not going back to that...)

Anyway, about enlightenment & humor:Oh,I 'm sure they can go together but of course a Master's humor has got to be a tad more refined...

Oh, yeah, I 'm sure there are some excellent ''enlightenment jokes'' out there ;-)

Love,
Pepi xxx

Otoharo,

Since I have said enlightenment is not a term we use, then perhaps I need to give my perspective here.

We start out being aware of ourselves while still in the all, not separated out. We wonder what we are. It is obvious we are a light but the light of all is so bright we have no idea how our own light shines. So we ask, and in answer, we are allowed free will to separate ourselves from All, and this lands us in this third dimension, where we see each other as well as ourselves. We begin to experience life separate. Separation and Oneness create a duality. As long as we live in this dimension there remains this duality in order to afford us choice.

We choose to set our goal as continued separation or as Oneness again. We continue always to have free will as that is a given. Oneness is not something to discuss, it can only be lived, only in being can it exist. However, we know that already as that is where we came from. Someday we will each return and in our own timing by our own free will choice.

Where on this continuum lies enlightenment, I do not know.

We move from third dimension to fourth, fifth, sixth, all while inhabiting earth. At seventh dimension, we "ascend" from life in a physical plane. However, we always use a physical plane as our base. We don't wander around in space!

From my memeory, life gets more and more exciting and full.

finality

Otoharo!

I am prompted to add that the path of reiki does not require enlightenment, nor even its pursuit. HOwever, it sure is helpful when pursuing spiritual growth at whatever level.

finality

Hi Pepi
Wouldn't it be good if someone could post some of the enlightenment jokes
I wonder id I would understand them(LOL)

Namaste
Rob

It is remembering of enlightment, that you all ready are.
I heard there are many layers, so you might already be at some level of enlightment.
Good luck on your path, fellow traveller

LOL

Same here :D

In fact, some koans & Zen stories(Master/disciple ones) are excellent jokes in themselves

Btw,I 've always wondered why there's no Humor section on these boards...................Pure Unadulterated Reiki Humor :D

Love,
Pepi xxx

I once believed that the reason we are here is to strive for enlightenment... to journey towards that end result...
however...
We came from a place of enlightenment before this incarnation... and relinquished all knowledge and memory of it to walk this earthly plane..... so is this just a big game? ;-) ??!!
Who remembers what first! who will remember the fastest? Who will remember the most! How will we score in the long run! Knowing that we "know it all", but not remembering the "all" at all! and having to walk "blind".....it is just a test of faith in some grand game of snakes and ladders.....
don't you just love it!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course, that state of enlightenment awaits us at the end of this game!

Dear Finality,

You said " Oneness is not something to discuss, it can only be lived, only in being can it exist. However, we know that already as that is where we came from. Someday we will each return and in our own timing by our own free will choice."

I know that you said that 'oneness' cannot be discussed,but I was wondering if you could give me some sort of perspective on what being in 'oneness' actually means?

Windsong

Otoharo!

But much before the end.

finality

Otoharo!

Windsong, You can not know oneness until you experience it. The head, our brain, can not conceive of it. It was years before I discuvered it. I was able to see my energy as my field of vision. When in meditation, that was a certain color, out of meditation it was a certain color, when I knew I was in contact with the Holy, it was a certain color. One day it occurred to me the color was all the same! That is oneness. I am one with the Holy. So is everyone else, therefore we are all one. We are indiviual and one at the same time. Those words will not mean anything until you "getit" yourself. It may not be through your field of vision. It may be through feeling or knowing.

I had a dream once where a bunch of us were on a floor (like gymn) where we had plenty of room. Our leader gave the signal for us to move to the right, whereupon I melded with the person on my right. I mean we sank into each other. then back to self. Then we moved to the left. Same thing. Then we were told to move as we wished and we always melded into each other. Once I recognised one of my sons, I called out his name, but kept on melding around the room. When I told that dream in group, Xaris called it a dream of oneness.

To tell the truth, the idea of all being one was abhorant to me for a long time. I did not want to contaminate myself by being one with EVERYBODY! Lets pick and choose here please! Just like when reading Conversations with God II I read that even Hitler was in heaven, I shouted "No, no, God, don't let him in!"

Once when in meditation, I was feeling one with members of my group, and suddenly, something in me, said,"Just a cottonpicking minute here, i want to choose for myself"!

We can not encompass oneness while we have judgment. Ego is the judge. Thus we have to release ego before we can encompass oneness.

finality

rich,

/*\ Namaste :-}}

- one view: if Human-kind does not start asking some "bigger questions" (the Collective type perhaps??) there will be no world upon which to "be enlightened"

- whatever that is (I wonder if it means having answers??)

bagl

- questions?? being fortuante enough to wake up this morning is a Big Question

>:-}}

- I've no Big Answer yet - just the questions that matter

>:-}}

- so I guess I will have to wake up again tomorrow morning

>:-}}

Reiki all around,

all blessings,

Firekeeper

oh YES!
That is the bonus! it would seem for many of us!
But to speak of enlightenment as something we do not have, or something that we aspire to, creates a separation, a duality, that puts us in one arena, and the enlightened state in another.
But nowhere are we told we have to seek this state, or become it.... because it is already a given that we will return to that state from which we came, IF we ever really left it!
The choice is always ours....
Perhaps just allowing ourselves to BE, instead of making it a duty or a chore or even a life mission to "rediscover enlightenment"....this is what we are here for...to live the faith that tells us who we really are!
and just to BE (Enjoy the journey!)
Blessings!

En- lighten - ment

I MENT to be ENLIGHT in the EN(d)..

I really believe that we came here on a mission. We picked why, where, who and how before we came. So to reach our original goal would be a state of enlightenment???? Did we choose to? Is it possible? Won't it be funny when we see the end result of our time here. I don't think anything is written in stone, maybe written in Light?

To have all the life lessons to overcome and hopefully come out of them with some knowledge would be a form of enlightment?

If we sit around and just BE is that (which is a great state but I don't know anybody who can achieve it and still LIVE life) illuminating?

Some call it a AHA moment when a light bulb clicks on in our head. When the truth of a situation finally dawns on us. That would be enlightment!?!?! But... if you stay there and don't go further on to more AHA moments, and/or life lessons would you still be in enlightment? To think that you would have no more questions no more great dicussions like this would be sad to me.

I sometimes see light up ahead, the glimmer, the spotlight, the lazer beam, the little timy miniscule dot. Enlightenment?

So in answer to your original question.

What is enlightenment?

I HAVE NO CLUE.

Love & LIGHT
Be

If I can paraphrase the quote by Stuart Wilde : You reach enlightenment when you have nothing else to do.

I am a long long way off then.

Have a great day.
Be

I can only write about what I think about enlightenment> I will know for sure about it when i get there. If there is a there to get to.

"When there is nothing left to do"
If the universe infinite...which i believe it is and If the universe is creative....which i believe it is.

Then there is no end. Only infinite creative expansion.
So there will never be nothing left to do!

rich

Uh Huh... Ring around the rosy. Isn't there a book out there that says all you ever needed to learn I learned in kindergarten?

Crayons and the colors of the rainbows are ideas and thoughts to share. Thanks for sharing yours.
Be